Conflicted TBM

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

Quote:

I actually feel like God is requiring more of me with regards to all my “me” issues. Does that make sense?

Bottom line, after the fact, I can go back and put meaning to things, but it does make me wonder when I can really know God hears my prayers, and when I just have to wait for an outcome, see the result, then go back and place meaning to it. That was not the way I understood revelation to work. I still don’t know how revelation works, and that is part of my current journey is figuring out how to have faith moving forward. But at least I’m at peace and can go to church and not be bitter anymore.

Yeah. Bitterness isn’t exactly a satisfying emotion. I think I had to overcome some of that myself. I still may have a few pockets of it to clear out with regards to my inlaws. More working on myself, I guess.

Would it be completely trite to say “just believe”? It seems to me that when I don’t feel God is there that I can go one way or the other. I can say, he just aint there at get bitter OR I can say he is listening and trust in something I can’t see. Many times I have said both. It seems now that I look back, I can see much better than I did in the moment. I still don’t completely know why I couldn’t feel him or didn’t see him working. I remember a while ago being so devastated by the current events of my life. My testimony needed some serious mouth to mouth and I was feeling so alone. The nights were the worst. Couldn’t sleep. I would pray into the emptiness and wonder why I couldn’t feel anyone there and it hurt so badly because out of anyone I knew, I was the one the needed the rescuing. One day, kind of on a whim, I visited my brothers house. I am not close to my brother really and so I knew he didn’t know the nature of my concerns. But for some reason I felt compelled to asked him for a blessing that day. I didn’t say a word except “give me a blessing” and I put all my faith into believing that he would either speak something spiritually amazing or it would fall completely dead. I was hoping for the spiritually amazing, but preparing to be disappointed. But then my brother started to speak and he spoke to that inner hurting place inside me. He told me things…..things I needed. Rain after a drought. He explained that God was with me and had shed tears right along with me during those long nights. Well, I was completely reduced to tears. And more than that I knew he was telling me the truth, not just giving me some pacifying touchy feely sentiment. I don’t know why I couldn’t feel him. If he was right there by my side. But now I am learning to practice trusting instead of doubting. It feels better and I am really enjoying living in the trust.

I don’t know why I share that with you. Maybe it just came to my mind. I hope you can find the knowledge for yourself that is just as convincing to the deepest parts of you.

[Anonymous]

Just to chronicle my journey (for my benefit more than anyone else’s), I have moved from:

My 1st tagline:

“If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things” – Rene Descartes

My next tagline:

“Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief, better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery – Joseph Campbell”

I think after first getting to the point I was mad and doubted everything, I then had to let myself relax and just be. I had to live in the present, find peace in the world and with myself and stop trying to control my situation or convince myself there was meaning behind everything. And so I let go of many of my traditions and obligations so I could seek new ideas, or reject old ones I didn’t like. I went from being mad, to being scared, to just accepting myself and my surroundings, with no expectations of the future or on others around me (mixed with some depression and hopelessness).

Now I feel a need to not just ignore the doctrines I don’t like, and avert my eyes from those elements so I can stay in the church despite them, but seek out why I don’t like them and why I don’t understand them, and find meaning about myself and God about those very things that I have a hard time with. They cause me to struggle and to wrestle with God…and in that is growth that doesn’t replace pain and disappointment in life, but accompanies it.

And so, my current tagline is:

If our religion is something objective, then we must never avert our eyes from those elements in it which seem puzzling or repellant; for it will be precisely the puzzling or the repellant which conceals what we do not yet know and need to know … the truth we need most is hidden precisely in the doctrines you least like and least understand. – CS Lewis

That led to the start of the thread on “The Blessing of Puzzling Doctrines”

Feel free to add to that discussion by going here: http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1026” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1026

My testimony is that for every crisis and test in life…we are required to move. It is how we move that determines our happiness, not figuring out why we had to move. My testimony of the church is quite a bit different than it was a year ago, and I’m not sure it is better…just different. So says Heber. Thanks for listening.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

I think after first getting to the point I was mad and doubted everything, I then had to let myself relax and just be. I had to live in the present, find peace in the world and with myself and stop trying to control my situation or convince myself there was meaning behind everything. And so I let go of many of my traditions and obligations so I could seek new ideas, or reject old ones I didn’t like. I went from being mad, to being scared, to just accepting myself and my surroundings, with no expectations of the future or on others around me (mixed with some depression and hopelessness).

I think that concisely says almost exactly what my journey has been like! Interesting how many of us here have a similar path…

Quote:

Now I feel a need to not just ignore the doctrines I don’t like, and avert my eyes from those elements so I can stay in the church despite them, but seek out why I don’t like them and why I don’t understand them, and find meaning about myself and God about those very things that I have a hard time with. They cause me to struggle and to wrestle with God…and in that is growth that doesn’t replace pain and disappointment in life, but accompanies it.

And so, my current tagline is:

If our religion is something objective, then we must never avert our eyes from those elements in it which seem puzzling or repellant; for it will be precisely the puzzling or the repellant which conceals what we do not yet know and need to know … the truth we need most is hidden precisely in the doctrines you least like and least understand. – CS Lewis

That led to the start of the thread on “The Blessing of Puzzling Doctrines”

Feel free to add to that discussion by going here: http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1026” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1026

My testimony is that for every crisis and test in life…we are required to move. It is how we move that determines our happiness, not figuring out why we had to move. My testimony of the church is quite a bit different than it was a year ago, and I’m not sure it is better…just different. So says Heber. Thanks for listening.

Beautiful, Heber! Thank YOU for sharing!

[Anonymous]

To update my chronicled journey…I am actively attending and enjoying my current ward. I have seen ups and downs, and I am still learning how to most compassionately discuss my unorthodox faith and also listen and be open to what others tell me from their perspectives.

My life is not happy all the time (or even most of the time). I have many of the same trials I am working through.

But I have settled into a believing Mormon condition where I see more overlap and shared common beliefs with my ward and family than differences.

I don’t believe some things at all anymore, because of my studies and my feelings in my heart. I think there are many paths to God, the Church is one of them, and other religions can be just as fruitful in bringing people to Christ…because I see that in my non-LDS neighbors. I do not get so hung up on requirements or ordinances for exaltation…I believe things will work out for good people.

My greatest tests have been when my kids have asked if they can no longer attend. I’m working to get back into activity, and now they have seen my example and heard my changed testimony, and now they are starting their paths. One is completely committed to BYU-Idaho and wants to wait for a missionary to come home to get married in the temple. One does not want to go to BYU or any church school, or attend church at all, but wants to focus on being a good person without the church, another is figuring it out…not sure what he wants to do but if I can let him stay home from church to play xbox he’d love it…and when we have him go to YM activities…he comes home happy and feeling good, and our youngest is an absolute inspiration in our home and does everything he is taught he should, including not letting me tuck him into bed until we’ve had prayer. What a blessing to see how different they all are, and how they are at different phases…and my journey helps me be patient and understanding as they do…because there is no one way…they each have to find their way…and I can be their greatest coach to help keep them in bounds and safe from harm, as much as possible.

I may have gotten past my rapids for now, and feel more in the flow of life and the gospel in my own way (my bishop doesn’t see eye to eye with me, but he says I’m worthy to attend the temple), but watching my kids navigate their journeys is an interesting test for me on how much I really am comfortable with there being more than one point of view. Not the church’s, not mine … but each and every one of theirs. It makes me smile.

I am still struggling with major decisions and trials (life can be hard)…but I am a lot more centered in dealing with them. I feel good about my testimony. I spoke in church last week. I used quotes from this website on how people doubt, and it is OK to not have to say “I know” as we all work out our testimonies. Because the 2 great commandments are what everything else hangs upon. I was complimented by multiple people…they needed to hear what I said.

I feel I have a place within my ward. My views make people think…and some think they don’t like my views. The views of others make me think and challenge my own ideas…and sometimes I don’t like others’ views. And that is OK.

I have a lot more to learn on how I conduct myself. And I plan to StayLDS to help me learn.

That is my update.

[Anonymous]

Now your signature is from Stars Wars, so you are definitely progressing!

[Anonymous]

Heber – thanks for the update. It is tough when kids get older. I know many here have the same struggles.

[Anonymous]

I enjoyed reading this again Heber13. I remembered it when I started reading it this time. And Poppyseed and Rix! I started lurking around this time, I think.

[Anonymous]

While continuing to maintain all normal appearances, my inner life in the church turned upside down in about a week. The rug was pulled out from under me. In my present emotional state I feel less belonging, less tolerant of the cliques, nitpicking, wheel-spinning and sanctimony. A good bishop and a good therapist would be great. A couple of weeks into it, I can see the good in my crisis. I find myself FAR less critical of my family, particularly my husband, who I could often, though gently, badger with undone church chores. I am so thankful for visiting teaching. I hope I’m dead when they change that program. And in my callings I am much more, and much more NATURALLY (because it’s the only way I steer my way clear to fulfill them) focusing on the things that matter. I don’t care how others view me in my calling, just that I am making very honest effort to fill my niche and be someone’s help.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that update Heber. Sometimes with the struggle to stayLDS I think, “We are doing this for the kids, for them to have the same support structure that we did growing up.”

So that begs the question – what if the kids end up choosing another path entirely? I find it helpful to see in you where I could be in a decade or so (my kids are young). I hope for the same level of acceptance, appreciation, and even wonder as my own children’s paths unfold.

Heber13 wrote:

watching my kids navigate their journeys is an interesting test for me on how much I really am comfortable with there being more than one point of view. Not the church’s, not mine … but each and every one of theirs. It makes me smile.

Thank you Heber!

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

A couple of weeks into it, I can see the good in my crisis. I find myself FAR less critical of my family, particularly my husband, who I could often, though gently, badger with undone church chores. I am so thankful for visiting teaching. I hope I’m dead when they change that program. And in my callings I am much more, and much more NATURALLY (because it’s the only way I steer my way clear to fulfill them) focusing on the things that matter.

I REALLY like this part of your response. Thanks for sharing, Ann.

I really do believe that we go through these things to gain experience. And getting some perspective seems to be a common thing I hear from people like us. The part of about VT is also interesting. I think that is one of the best things about church…how we try to support each other. That is pure religion, IMO.

Ann wrote:

I don’t care how others view me in my calling, just that I am making very honest effort to fill my niche and be someone’s help.

Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

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