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I agree with OON that the primary differences among political groups are not that they believe in different generalized values but that they apply the same generalized values in different ways. I also agree that we need to try to keep politics out of this site as much as possible. It definitely has a place for discussion here, since it is an integral part of many faith transitions and crises, but we need to be very careful not to make sweeping generalizations and assumptions based on broad categorizations.
I don’t believe there ie a pendulum swing in American politics. Each government is business is usual while the public imagines it has a choice in what happens. On Own Now wrote:
So, one thing I’ll just mention about this thread, or more specifically, the title of this thread: I consider myself to be primarily conservative, and I would not equate conservatism with control nor consider it the opposite of either autonomy or respect. If I can be forthright for a moment, I kind of find that offensive. It is just as offensive as if I started a thread called “Progressivism and Control vs. Autonomy and Respect”, for which I could make a case. . . I wouldn’t mind, going forward, if we could keep the political barbs and judgments to a minimum.
I apologize for this. My use of the terms are the terms the countries themselves use to describe themselves politically and are not specifically related to US politics. I lived in Singapore for almost 3 years, and I can attest that they are both conservative (far more than the US) and progressive (far more than the US). They achieve this through a mix of things, but primarily a nearly unopposed ruling party, even though they are a democracy. It is a very tightly controlled country, but because of this control, any idea they like (including legalized prostitution) can be implemented easily. I tend to think of Singapore as a more pure form of conservatism than anything in the US (which has a strong libertarian bent to it, which is where it arches around to Amsterdam’s views).The definition of conservatism is:
1. commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
2. the holding of political views that favor free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas.
Singapore usually fits #1 (homosexuality is still against the law, although mostly “don’t ask / don’t tell” in reality), but it is first and foremost all about economic success, as is Amsterdam which considers itself liberal and progressive. I think it’s hard to draw parallels between other countries with their rich histories and US politics which has bifurcated in some strange ways. Both parties want to control things, just different things.
Quote:left-leaning moderate
Me, too. Thanks for giving it a title.
Thank you, hawkgrrrl. I appreciate the response. It’s all good… I’m just looking for a little less CNBC and a little more NPR 
I still think of myself as a pretty caring person who loves diversity and supports SSM, even though I’m politically pretty conservative, which in the eyes of many in today’s world makes me a people-hater. We build up these strawman views of people with whom we don’t agree and project all sorts of sins on them.
FWIW, I hate the idea of prostitution, but I don’t have answers to how to deal with it. It’s been around for a very long time. It saddens me that so many women find themselves in a situation where it is their only viable way forward. Undoubtedly, it works for some, but I have a feeling it is bad for most.
Quote:FWIW, I hate the idea of prostitution, but I don’t have answers to how to deal with it. It’s been around for a very long time. It saddens me that so many women find themselves in a situation where it is their only viable way forward. Undoubtedly, it works for some, but I have a feeling it is bad for most.
I agree, and I keep thinking that it’s poverty exploitation. People who have better options almost never resort to this. And then, part of me thinks that all of “women’s work” is like this (meaning the stuff that men want women to do as financially dependent wives). Everyone wants it for free, and nobody wants to pay for it. A lot of these aging prostitutes in Amsterdam understand that they are the product they are selling, and they realize they have a sell-by date. There are so many wacky things about this topic, things I feel women have to think about and men likely don’t.
Quote:A lot of these aging prostitutes in Amsterdam understand that they are the product they are selling, and they realize they have a sell-by date.
My very first time in Amsterdam, I saw “her” in the window. She literally was at the sell by date. Holding on for the last farthing. It broke my heart even more than seeing the too young, tricked out girls who hustle in the cities near me.
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