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1) This thread will NOT become a post about polygqmy. If anyone is inclined to continue that aspect, let it go. Won’t happen. The first comment was fine and insightful. That is enough in this thread. 2) For me, this one has a simple but not easy answer: Let it go.
If you can do that without professional help, fine; if not, get help. There is NO sin in that, and there should be no shame. Your marriage is worth it, especially if she is as wonderful as you describe.
mfree6464 wrote:
I feel like I lost something that gave me comfort. It’s not a possessive thing in my opinion.
Those statements are at odds with each other.
mfree6464 wrote:
The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches that sexual relations outside of marriage are wrong. It is part of the plan to be your spouse’s one and only. That is how it is designed and how it is supposed to work. When that changes the plan is disrupted and this has caused me great heart ache for 4 weeks now
Based on your understanding of the Gospel, you were entitled to virginity (which you got, by the way). You already settled for something less than virginity when you got married (virginity minus third base), and by her having or giving oral sex 14 years ago, she has disrupted God’s plan which has forced unspeakable heartache onto you. Now, and for all eternity, you’ll have to suffer with the thought of her past misdeeds. I know you don’t think so, but it’s an extremely sexually possessive mindset.
I couldn’t help but think of James Joyce’s The Dead when I read your story. You might want to give it a perusal if you haven’t read it (or again if you have). It’s a thought-provoking piece about the lack of intimacy in marriage and the question of the past vs. the present. You can read it on line for free here: http://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/958/ My experience is not exactly the same as yours, but I do have a spouse that was not a virgin when we married, but I was. When things started to get serious between us, she told me that she was not a virgin. I was surprised and a little shaken at first, but it never really bothered me much. She told me a little about her past, but not in much detail. I don’t want to know the details. It is in the past and I believe she has truly repented and moved on. Old-Timer wrote:2) For me, this one has a simple but not easy answer: Let it go.
If you can do that without professional help, fine; if not, get help. There is NO sin in that, and there should be no shame. Your marriage is worth it, especially if she is as wonderful as you describe.
I believe Ray is right. It may take some time and you may need some help, but you obviously love her and she loves you. I can understand the shock you must have experienced when you found out about the details of your spouse’s sexual past after 14 years of marriage, but let it go. As much as I’m sure she wishes she could change the past, no one can. But it sounds like she truly has repented of her mistakes and now she has a wonderful life with you.
There is no shame in getting professional help to overcome your feelings if you need it. Give it some time and if you need help to let it go, a competent therapist can help you.
I picked this out of your previous statements. Quote:In fact, I believe at this point in our lives she is the purer of the two of us. She really is a Saint in every sense of the word.
It could be that you are also mourning the idea that your wife is this perfect person. The pedestal you put her on has been shaken and you are seeing her in a different way. When nothing has really changed about her present except your idea of who she was is the past. No one is perfect not her and not you, though the sudden realization of that I’m sure is really hard.
Mourn for a short while, then you will have to find a way to move on. If you can’t move past it you risk really destroying what sounds like a great relationship with her. I am sure you don’t want to hurt her, or make her feel less than worthy of you, your love, and God’s love but if you let it continue to affect you that is what will happen. She will also not want to talk to you about other things in her life that may not be as perfect as you want her to be.
I am so sorry to hear the heartache you are having from this situation. It is great that you are trying to find help and work through it, keep at it.
Just a few things from someone who has experienced some of your wife’s point of view.
I had not been fully truthful about my pre-marital sexual experiences to my then fiancée. It took many years before it came out. DW has hurt and the level of trust in our relationship suffered as a result. I was trying not to lose this amazing woman who I was crazy about. Unfortunately, I also was putting up a barrier to full love and acceptance. She may have had a “fantasy” of who she was marrying that wasn’t accurate. I was also denying her the opportunity to know me warts and all and decide to love me anyway. I was aware of this barrier. Sometimes when we would fight about stupid stuff I would think to myself that if she can be so mad about simple thoughtlessness, I might never be able to recover if the truth ever came out.
When it did finally come out it was awful but it didn’t last forever. I am still the man that has stood by her side for all these years. I had lied to her and that trust had to be regained in small increments over time. DW has been great to not dig it back up and throw it in my face in later arguments. We do still fight about stupid stuff, but at least now I know that my wife is fighting with the full and real me – not a façade that I have created.
Allow yourself to mourn the death of the fantasy, to mourn the deception. Just be careful to be as kind as you can be in the interim while you are working through your feelings. Remember at the end of the day the goal is to pick up the pieces and carry forward with this “Saint” of a woman.
Roy wrote:Allow yourself to mourn the death of the fantasy, to mourn the deception. Just be careful to be as kind as you can be in the interim while you are working through your feelings. Remember at the end of the day the goal is to pick up the pieces and carry forward with this “Saint” of a woman.
More great advice from Roy. From what you’ve said, I think you are going through a grieving process right now. It may get gradually better over time, or you may find you need some professional help to get you through it. But you will get through it.
To be honest my wife’s sexual experiences before she me met me never really bothered me but I think the main differences in my case were simply that I already knew about it before we were engaged and I also had my own past sexual history so it’s not like I could make a big deal out of it without being a complete hypocrite. I do think it’s kind of weird that she didn’t tell you before and that you only found out about it now so long after you have been married but maybe she was afraid to admit it before and felt like she already told you what she thought were the most important points such as that she didn’t have sex but she wasn’t completely innocent by Church standards. Personally I would still call anyone that never had sex but had engaged in oral sex a virgin because it’s not really the same thing. I see this whole situation as largely the product of the Church setting unrealistic expectations so then we end up with Church members keeping score, thinking that it’s not fair if they strictly obeyed the rules but others didn’t, feeling like they deserve someone with the same level of purity and innocence that they had, etc. as well as basically encouraging people to avoid being open and honest about things because of the judgmental reactions and even possible Church discipline that are likely to happen in many cases if they actually tell the truth. I guess this kind of thing is where the word “disillusioned” comes from because sometimes it is painful and disappointing to find out the truth is not what we had already believed and/or hoped for.
I wont stir this–you all know me and my mess. I do, however, want to say the positions of everyone on this board are so broad and mixed it is astounding!
I’m divorced…and I am on the utter opposite side of this: when I remarry, I will not marry someone who doesn’t have sexual history. In fact, she has BETTER have one. I want someone who has been out there, knows what she wants, likes what she wants, and is willing to bring all that passion to me.
My interest in her past?…nada. Nothing. I’m tired of my past and if she wants to dig into that from her perspective?…she needs her head checked. And with all do respect, I don’t want to know hers, unless she needs to talk about it for HER sake.
I want now and a future. My past makes me just feel regret. I am leaving the past in the past….where it belongs for me.
We all teach that Jesus atoned for us…and time (past, present and future) is all God’s realm. Well, Jesus can have my past…I don’t want it.
And that is that.
question for you mfree6464….how is she feeling about all of this? I haven’t read every single post in this thread, but I’m wondering what she is feeling. I my situation and BECAUSE of my past, I’m like on the receiving end of this discussion. I offer TREMEMDOUS empathy and compassion going forward BECAUSE i have a past. Because of that perspective, I am just wondering what she might be thinking and feeling…
(and if this was already addressed, I’m sorry. I can only read so much sometimes…)
Thanks again to those who have provided your experience-based input. It has been invaluable to me the past few days. As I said in my original post, this has only been going on for about 5 weeks now so it is all very fresh and to hear from some of you who are years down this road or similar roads is very insightful. I will say that the past few days have been the best yet for me from an emotional standpoint since the night this all came out. I credit that almost entirely to those of you who have taken the time to offer your experience-based perspectives on the matter. I will say that I still take exception to the whole “sexual possessiveness” idea that has come up a few times. Perhaps it is just semantics but to me the idea that my problems is sexual possessiveness rings hollow. Who would really say that given the opportunity to choose, they would choose to marry someone who had already shared those first experiences with someone else? Who wouldn’t take back giving away those experiences before marriage if they could? Who wouldn’t be saddened to find out after 15 years that their spouse had more sexual experience than they let on when you were getting to know each other? I’m sure there are some and you will likely post here about it, but I am certain those people are in the great minority. I know my wife would take it back in a heartbeat if she could. She told me so. She didn’t need to and I didn’t ask her if she would or would not, but she did say that to me. But my point is, most people would be saddened under the same circumstances. I truly believe that.
Another way to look at it might be if you were married to someone and they had a habit of putting a single red rose under your windshield along with a love note every Monday while you were at work. It would be something you would grow to love and it would be something special about your spouse that reassures you of their love and devotion. Then, after years of marriage, perhaps you run into one of his/her exes and you ultimately discover that they did that rose “trick” with every person they had a relationship with. Would those experiences mean less? They shouldn’t, but you might find yourself struggling with the fact that they didn’t only do those things just with and for you. It shouldn’t cheapen it, but for some it might.
When I find a new restaurant that I like, my first inclination is to figure out when I can take my wife so I can share this discovery with her. When I find a new TV show that I like, I first want to talk to her about it and I hope she will like it and want to watch it with me so we can enjoy it together. Sex is similar in a way to those things but on steroids. It is the ultimate show of affection and bonding and I want to share it with her and only her and for some reason (though probably not the right reasons) it helps to think that she shared those things with me and nobody else, ever. If I found out that my newly discovered restaurant was actually a favorite spot where her ex used to take her on dates then I probably would not enjoy it so much. It shouldn’t be that way but it is the natural man in me I suppose that makes me feel that it is now somehow less and I think most can relate to that. I am not saying that is how it should be, I am just saying that is why I felt as I did; not because I lost a possession. The possessiveness diagnosis to me is more how I feel about something like my bicycle. If it were stolen I would be angry, feel violated; like someone took something that is rightfully mine and had no right to do that. To me they are exclusive and evoke different emotions inside me. I don’t have any anger; not at him and not at my wife. None. Just sorrow. And I think that sorrow is just my natural reaction to realizing that what I thought she had only shared with me was also shared with someone else long before me. It’s hard to take. It is sad.
Reading back on my posts, however, I think some of the ways I chose to express my feelings and some of the words I chose do make it sound like I am possessive. Hopefully this post will help clarify how I feel now and how I felt when I learned more of my wife’s sexual past.
Rob4Hope, She has been great. Of the two of us I am the more connected to my emotional side. She likes to sweep things under the rug and doesn’t talk about her feelings. That said, she also has a tendency to get frustrated when having to re-explain and/or rehash things. This is part of why we ended up here. When we were dating I was making efforts to communicate and know her history. It wasn’t because things would be a deal-breaker for me if I found out (she didn’t know that as it turns out) but more just so I knew who I was marrying. She was obviously never fully forthcoming and I could sense that so I continued to press her to open up. Well, continually pressing grated on her back then and she would get frustrated. It was really the only sour point we ever had as a dating couple – me wanting to know more and her wanting to leave those things in the past and undiscussed. So ultimately I dropped it, made the incorrect assumptions I did based on the somewhat misleading information she gave and lived with that for 14 years.
Well, we have both grown up and are now in our mid-thirties. She has been surprisingly patient with me as my emotions have continued to bubble up every few days after several “good days.” She listens, holds me and is not frustrated in the least. I have really been amazed with her, especially considering the natural dispositions she possesses. I mentioned in one of my posts how she told me she feels like a third party looking on. I believe this to mean that she has completely and entirely repented and moved on from the experience (something I never doubted to begin with.) But she really separates herself from it – she is literally a new person which is what the Atonement is for and I believe it has worked in her case. She is only saddened when I am saddened but it is completely not in relation to her past actions – she has told me that this experience with me has not brought on new remorse or anything like that and I am glad to hear it.
I can tell you her strength has made all the difference. If she were to get impatient with me and tell me to “man up” I would really sink to a new low. Her compassion is saving me. Having said that, were I in a marriage with an indifferent wife it would not be a good marriage and I think part of why this is so challenging is because I love my wife so. If we were unhappy I would more easily be able to shrug this all off and essentially say “I don’t really care what you did and with whom” because she wouldn’t matter that much to me in a bad marriage.
I’m not sure how much you have read but I will say again that I have felt no anger. All I have experienced is great and deep sorrow that I could not shake. It would hit me at any time and any place over the past month. She has dealt with my sorrow very well. Had I said things to her like, “How could you not tell me this!” or “I had a right to be your first!” then things would likely have taken a different turn. I never said those things and never felt like I needed to either. I just wanted to understand why I was hurting more than I ever had in my life and what I needed to do to get past that. While she hates to see me this way she has told me she takes comfort in knowing how difficult that information was for me to take. She said it shows her how deeply I cherish her, how profoundly I love her and how greatly I cherish our sexual experiences as being for us and only us. She never had seen me cry to this point in our lives — aside from me getting a little teary-eyed once or twice in 15 years — and it was a little shocking for her. But to answer your question, she has been amazing through this for me. I tell her this frequently as well. She knows that I need her now more than ever and her unconditional love is helping me tremendously at this time.
Even after reading your (re) explanations, I would still say that you have a bit of possessiveness. But I am not saying that in an accusational way. As I said before, give yourself some slack for being human. And 5 weeks may not be enough time to work it out of your system. mfree6464 wrote:Who would really say that given the opportunity to choose, they would choose to marry someone who had already shared those first experiences with someone else? Who wouldn’t take back giving away those experiences before marriage if they could? Who wouldn’t be saddened to find out after 15 years that their spouse had more sexual experience than they let on when you were getting to know each other? I’m sure there are some and you will likely post here about it, but I am certain those people are in the great minority.”
I guess I am one of those. I think that comes from a place of being rejected for 30+ years and feeling more like I would answer, “Hell – if she would love ME NOW, I could care less who she did what before we were married.” But we are all products of our experiences a bit. I am sure there are thousands of people that would switch with me in a minute because they go to bed hungry every night and have their kids die from malnutrition and they look at me and think, “what does that guy complain about THAT???” And you know what – they are right. But human nature wants to fix the most urgent thing irritating us at the moment. It is what drives much good in the world. I have accepted that I am just a human.LookingHard wrote:…
I guess I am one of those. I think that comes from a place of being rejected for 30+ years and feeling more like I would answer, “Hell – if she would love ME NOW, I could care less who she did what before we were married.” But we are all products of our experiences a bit.
I am one of those as well LH…me to.
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Mfree, your wife seems like a wonderful woman. Make sure to tell her that…… And be careful of codependency. Do you allow her to choose what she brings to you, and what she brings to Christ ONLY? Is she allowed to make that choice…and do you respect that, even support her in that?
In my life, I have been hurt by people forcing me to share what I wanted to only share with Christ. We can pry so much into people’s lives….and even in marriage I believe there are some things you need to take only to Jesus. Be that right or wrong,…I believe it is necessary. Some types of information, some types of mistakes…we need help to bring them to Jesus,…and we need the help of our loves ones to do that…but ONLY that.
An example? If you swallow acid, throwing it up can do more damage than just treating it differently. With some sins, some mistakes, some issues, bringing them up can cause more damage than had they been deal with differently.
I believe compassion and personal accountability is always the best choice…and some things must be treated with delicacy and tact. Jesus is the one who heals,…
mfree6464 wrote:I will say that I still take exception to the whole “sexual possessiveness” idea that has come up a few times. Perhaps it is just semantics but to me the idea that my problems is sexual possessiveness rings hollow. Who would really say that given the opportunity to choose, they would choose to marry someone who had already shared those first experiences with someone else? Who wouldn’t take back giving away those experiences before marriage if they could? Who wouldn’t be saddened to find out after 15 years that their spouse had more sexual experience than they let on when you were getting to know each other? I’m sure there are some and you will likely post here about it, but I am certain those people are in the great minority. I know my wife would take it back in a heartbeat if she could. She told me so. She didn’t need to and I didn’t ask her if she would or would not, but she did say that to me. But my point is, most people would be saddened under the same circumstances. I truly believe that.
I think this is looking at it through a Puritan and LDS lens. I’m not saying that’s bad, and I’m not saying it’s only an LDS thing. But I don’t think it’s shared by the world in general. The opposite may be a minority view, but it’s not a small minority.
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