Could this WofW story be for real?

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I just have random commentary from some of these old postings.

DA wrote:

This kind of anti-sin legislation also results in Utah losing a lot of business to border towns like Evanston, Wyoming and Wendover, Nevada.

I lived in Evanston as a child. My cousins saw a billboard that said “Color it fun, Evanston WY.” They asked their mother what it meant and were told it was an invitation/temptation to go up there and sin. 👿 After this was reported to me, I became somewhat bewildered. Evanston had never struck me as a particularly sinful place. I later figured it must have had something to do with the nearby Wyoming Downs racetrack.

I don’t think it’s a sinful place either but the laws in Wyoming and almost every other state that I know of are night and day compared to Utah. Not that I think Utah should necessarily legalize gambling but some of the alcohol regulations here are ridiculous. I think the taxes on cigarettes are higher here too. Also Utahns can’t buy any hard-core movies without driving 2 hours so they typically just look at internet porn instead. It’s almost like they want to make being an adult illegal in Utah and non-Mormons complain about some of these laws all the time.

[Anonymous]

Utah is 17th in the country in cigarette taxes – within a few cents of the average for non-tobacco producing states, which unsurprisingly have the lowest taxes, and less than half of New York, which has the highest taxes.

The link is: http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf

Utah is 6th in “spirits tax”(much closer in actual tax amount to the top extreme than the bottom extreme) – one of four states that sells wine through state-operated stores – tied for 9th in beer tax (closer to the bottom in actual tax amount than the top).

The link is: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html – and it includes data for each year from 2000-2010, although I didn’t look at anything but 2010.

The data indicates that Utah taxes cigarettes about average (especially when tobacco producing states are excluded), “spirits” very heavily, wine in a very controlled manner, and beer somewhat high but reasonably close to the national average.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I did a Google search for StayLDS and found some comments on an LDS skinny dippers forum. Several of the comments were quite negative to the effect of why would anyone want to stay if they don’t believe anymore? The church is better off without them. Etc. I found it ironic that this is coming from a forum that supports indulging in chaste and tasteful nudity. Sooo….Faith crisis = bad but nudity = ok between consenting adults. Am I missing something here? Do I not understand the point of this (skinny dipping) forum?

Just an aside from the topic of the post but speaking as an LDS naturist/nudist you are missing something. A person who is naturist or textile can have uncharitable feelings and opinions about others and their faith crises and have nothing to do with what they are or not wearing. You’re talking apples and oranges and nothing that has anything to do with the WoW. The point of the LDSSDC forum is for people with like minded views about nudism to share there opinions just like people that would like to stay lds inspite of their faith crises share feelings here. Probably best not to conflate the two.

Ray, no need to jump in and bring us back on post.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Utah is 17th in the country in cigarette taxes – within a few cents of the average for non-tobacco producing states, which unsurprisingly have the lowest taxes, and less than half of New York, which has the highest taxes.

…The data indicates that Utah taxes cigarettes about average…”spirits” very heavily, wine in a very controlled manner, and beer somewhat high but reasonably close to the national average.

Right, but the cigarette taxes in Wyoming, Nevada, and Idaho are less than half as much as in Utah according to this list so it looks to me like Utah lawmakers are deliberately trying to crack down on “sinners” more than anything else. When I said the Utah alcohol laws are ridiculous I was mostly talking about the 3.2% beer, banning flavored malt beverages from being sold in grocery/convenience stores, the “Zion Curtain”, the private club law for bars, etc. more than the overall alcohol taxes. Some of these bar laws have recently been changed but I never understood the point of most of these alcohol regulations to begin with. Seriously, what good does this 3.2% beer restriction really do when any real alcohol abusers can just buy hard liquor instead?

[Anonymous]

GBSmith wrote:

A person who is naturist or textile can have uncharitable feelings and opinions about others and their faith crises and have nothing to do with what they are or not wearing.

Hi GB, I believe the incredulity evident in my post sprung from my assumption that LDS persons with lifestyle choices that fit outside the traditional LDS mold would be more understanding of others that find themselves (sometimes unexpectedly) outside the mold.

I suppose when it comes down to it, that would be similar to saying that stay at home moms should be more sympathetic to the struggles of other stay at home moms or single moms or divorced moms. Thanks for helping me see the generalization. I wish I could say that I’m not going to do it in the future. Yet I tend to generalize even as I decry generalization. Hopefully I can at least be more aware of it. 💡 Like adding little mental asterisks that lead to footnotes that say, “may not apply in all cases.” 💡 I’m working on it.

[Anonymous]

Very interesting conversation. I’m not used to such an open forum after 2 1/2 years of being in the closet. I’m still shocked about all that I didn’t know about our religion. 😯

f4h1

[Anonymous]

GBSmith wrote:

Just an aside from the topic of the post but speaking as an LDS naturist/nudist you are missing something.

😯

GB — I would LOVE to to discuss this in a separate thread. I’m interested in discussing the compatibility of the LDS faith and nudist/naturalists.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

GB — I would LOVE to to discuss this in a separate thread. I’m interested in discussing the compatibility of the LDS faith and nudist/naturalists.

Cwald,

You’ll get the most information from the Palmer’s on http://www.ldssdc.info and a broad range of discussion on all different facets of naturism and being lds on http://www.ldssdc.org. I’d be happy to discuss it but you’ll get the best range of info from those two web sites. Mormon Matters had a 300 plus comment thread on the topic a year or so ago.

[Anonymous]

Okay thanks.

[Anonymous]

DA, I wasn’t trying to defend anything. I was curious, so I googled the tax rates and figured I should share them.

Don’t read into it more than it was.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Sooo….Faith crisis = bad but nudity …

Okay, I give. What’s ‘bad but nudity’?

[Anonymous]

doug wrote:

Roy wrote:

Sooo….Faith crisis = bad but nudity …

Okay, I give. What’s ‘bad but nudity’?

We did have someone here a while ago who represented that group. They wanted to talk about their Mormon nudist movement, but we asked them to stick to the focus of our community while participating here. They were decent and respectful about it, so I appreciate that. There just wasn’t a real strong crossover connection. As far as I know, they were faithful traditional believers in the LDS faith AND they were into nudity. So … they weren’t so much having a belief crisis so much as a cultural clash.

That isn’t the focus of our community. On the surface, I find their concept intellectually interesting, and certainly a touch renegade (which I appreciate).

It just isn’t a focus for us here, as far as championing causes. Also, it doesn’t even fit into the WofW topic of this thread. But that’s the history of that nudist stuff, as far as I recall it from memory.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

DA, I wasn’t trying to defend anything. I was curious, so I googled the tax rates and figured I should share them…Don’t read into it more than it was.

Sorry Ray, I thought you were trying to imply that I was wrong because Utah is not so different from other states. Even though I have lived here my entire life other than my mission I have traveled through at least 13 other states and I know for a fact that there are a few differences like this and have also heard non-Mormons specifically complain about some of these laws. As far as comparative statistics I would be more interested in seeing how Utah compares to the rest of the US when it comes to things like bankruptcy, suicide, and the use of prescription antidepressants. I think some of these things don’t exactly reflect very well on the local society and culture here in recent years but maybe that’s a topic for another thread.

[Anonymous]

Brian Johnston wrote:

doug wrote:

Roy wrote:

Sooo….Faith crisis = bad but nudity …

Okay, I give. What’s ‘bad but nudity’?

We did have someone here a while ago who represented that group. They wanted to talk about their Mormon nudist movement, but we asked them to stick to the focus of our community while participating here. They were decent and respectful about it, so I appreciate that. There just wasn’t a real strong crossover connection. As far as I know, they were faithful traditional believers in the LDS faith AND they were into nudity. So … they weren’t so much having a belief crisis so much as a cultural clash.

That isn’t the focus of our community. On the surface, I find their concept intellectually interesting, and certainly a touch renegade (which I appreciate).

It just isn’t a focus for us here, as far as championing causes. Also, it doesn’t even fit into the WofW topic of this thread. But that’s the history of that nudist stuff, as far as I recall it from memory.

Thanks for the informative response, Brian. I was actually making an attempt at a cheap joke/play on (lack of) punctuation, but I see it fell flat.

I am fascinated by the whole LDS/nudist concept. I’d love the chance to understand more of the issues involved. I’m betting there’s a website.

[Anonymous]

doug, “bad butt nudity” would have made the pun more clear.

Now, I think your comment is quite funny. 🙂

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