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Just curious is anyone thinks the admittedly widespread, extremely global virus is a sign of the times? Revelations talks about God pouring out several vials onto the earth in preparation for the coming of the Savior. These are signs of the last days. Is this one of those vials, inflicting disease and pestilence on the earth worldwide? SilentDawning wrote:
Just curious is anyone thinks the admittedly widespread, extremely global virus is a sign of the times? Revelations talks about God pouring out several vials onto the earth in preparation for the coming of the Savior. These are signs of the last days. Is this one of those vials, inflicting disease and pestilence on the earth worldwide?
With how I’ve approach church topics recently I’d hate to further solidify my reputation, but I did find this question intriguing.
No, this isn’t a sign of the last days. Or if it is, it’s one of the hundreds that have been witnessed since Joseph Smith became a prophet, or if you would since Jesus departed after his resurrection. It’s really funny how the church and it’s members have interpreted the last days and what that means to them. Ever since I was a young boy I heard both young and old talk about the latest wars or latest changes in the church as a sign. The missionary age change in 2012-13? Sign of the times! The church “hosted” the SLC winter Olympics in 2002? Sign of the times! Then again, my dad was told the second coming was going to happen when he was a young man and the proof then was how many rock songs were cursed with satanic messages hidden in them.
I think we are unhappy and anxious about the world we live in, and if we believe what the church suggests life will be like when we die or when Jesus comes back, it creates a desire to “rush” our earth/mortal life so we can “Hurry up and see Jesus”. This urgency to not appreciate the here and now and just prepare for God is unhealthy IMO. It’s even more baffling when Utah was struck by the earthquake this week. Mormons everywhere panicked and said it’s a sign of the times! Yet… daily earthquakes and famines are surrounding us.
So is this virus (that happens to be happening before an American election, as most of them seem to be) a sign of the times? Sure. As long as every other sign that a prophet since Jesus and Joseph have declared as such, is seen as one too. Otherwise, nah this is just life. Enjoy it, stop hording toilet paper and appreciate your life now,
There are wars and rumors of wars too…. 😈 Frankly I’ve always thought this (even as a Catholic who put a little less emphasis on it): All of those end of times things have been happening since the beginning of recorded history and very likely before then. IMO –
and it is just my opinion– no, this is not from God and not a sign of anything other than human life as it always has been. This is far from what the pandemic flu of 1917-18 was and will not get there. I’m not poo-pooing (at least not totally) the “crisis,” I don’t want people to get sick, I don’t people to die, and I am taking precautions myself (social distancing, hand washing, etc. – social distancing is easy, I don’t like people anyway). I’m not being politically correct but I don’t care, I’m not a politician. Let’s do some math. ChinaTotal population: ~1,435,000,000 (give or take a few thousand)
Number of reported cases*: 80,967
Chinese deaths: 3248
Reported cases divided by total population: .006% (rounded up, translates as one out of every 100,000 people)
Deaths divided by cases: 4%
In perspective, the number reported recovered in China: 71,150
The number of new cases in China has significantly decreased to be negligible – the wave has moved through and the epicenter is now Europe. The wave will move through Europe and the wave will move through the US.
Should we take precautions? Certainly. I’m not visiting my mother who is 77 and has COPD. I talk to her on the phone and she stays home. I don’t want her to get sick and die and she doesn’t want to get sick and die. That’s all I’m really saying, let’s use a little common sense and reason here. The vast majority of us are not gong to get sick, and even fewer are going to die. The sky is not falling. Zombies would be far more fun.
*Reported cases could be vastly under reported due to lack of testing, etc. Deaths, however, are probably not under reported.
grobert93 wrote:
It’s even more baffling when Utah was struck by the earthquake this week. Mormons everywhere panicked and said it’s a sign of the times! Yet… daily earthquakes and famines are surrounding us.
Human nature. It’s hard to see something as a real problem until it starts happening to you.
I will admit, many signs of the second coming are rather convenient for prediction makers. Wars, earthquakes, illnesses, floods, etc. Things that happen all the time.
DJ mentioned the Spanish flu. I bet many during the Black Plague in the mid 14th century felt like the plague was a sign of the second coming. Some estimate that 50% of the European population died over a four year period. 50%. If Jesus didn’t show up then… In fact Black Death had an impact on people’s faith as they began to realize that the church and religion were impotent at holding the plague at bay. The plague also took a toll on trained clergy; their mortality rate was higher because they would contract the illness as they ministered to people.
The 20th century saw two world wars, the Spanish flu, came close to nuclear apocalypse in the Cold War. If the world didn’t end then, it’s not going to end now. I’m with Nibbler that the plague took out a huge percent of the European population. The documentary I watched put it in the 30-40% range. THAT could have been a sign of the times. If they had global travel to the extent we do back then, the plague could have been even more than the COVID-19 virus. When it comes down to it, I find the “sign of the times” reasoning flawed because these things are happening all the time in different places. Wars, rumors of wars, etcetera, to the point that when/if the second coming comes, the events leading up to it may well be indistinguishable from the pattern of calamities that have happened in decades/centuries past. I believe the scriptures say the righteous will recognize the sign of the times, but frankly, the signs as described in the scriptures are so vague that I don’t feel I can trust any opinion or view of such things.
We shall see…we shall see.
The good news is that I’m starting to feel a little more at peace with my less activity, in spite of the warnings and unsettling things I hear about people like me at church.
I will say this — I bet faithful members are calling it a revelation that there has been such an emphasis on studying the gospel at home lately. I guess the faithful will view the world through faithful eyes, confirming what they believe when they see evidence that seems to confirm their faith ie confirmation bias.
SilentDawning wrote:
I will say this — I bet faithful members are calling it a revelation that there has been such an emphasis on studying the gospel at home lately. I guess the faithful will view the world through faithful eyes, confirming what they believe when they see evidence that seems to confirm their faith ie confirmation bias.
Pretty much.
I know several people that view the earthquake knocking the trumpet out of the hands of the Moroni statue on top of the SL temple as yet another sign of the times.
That’s life, we look for signs in everything. Plus, I think many people are quick to call things because they’re itching to say, “I told you so.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“It’s going to rain today.”
“I told you so.”
It’s more than just the virus. We’ve heard about (or felt) significant earthquakes in recent weeks, and locusts are ravaging eastern Africa. Antying else I’ve missed? Christians have been predicting the second coming is imminent for two thousand years. Barely had Jesus left the room when they started seeing signs of his return. In my teen years it was the Cold War. We expected the USSR would hit the button and there would be a nuclear winter, and that would usher in the second coming (the earth being cleansed by fire was the nuclear bombing). Thing is, when you start looking for signs, they can go either way. When Moroni’s trumpet fell, people took that as a sign:
1) that the church was no longer the mouthpiece of God (e.g. has lost its way, become apostate)
2) that people need to listen more to the prophets (e.g. Moroni “dropped the mic”)
People said that an earthquake in Utah was just out of the blue and unexpected, but when I was a BYU student in the early 90s, my geology class did a field trip to SLC, and our professor pointed out the fault line along the Wasatch front that was teeming with million dollar homes and said, “You see all those mansions? They are built right on a fault line, and it’s only a matter of time before an earthquake hits.”
Humans find signs in anything, but as any corner advertiser will tell you, a sign can be flipped every which way. Here are some things I wondered about Covid 19 being a sign:
– God is cleansing the earth of those who voted for Trump (disproportionately old people)
– God is breaking down generational and partisan divisions (turning the hearts of the children to their elders to save them)
– God is breaking people’s attachments to their human churches by preventing group gatherings
– God is showing us problems we need to fix as a society or perish: global warming due to carbon footprints and pollution, health care system gaps, homelessness, inequalities of wealth, anti-science views, holding on to outdated views, unwillingness to change and adopt new technologies, materialism.
But I know plenty of people who see this as a sign that we are the chosen people because we have food storage and in-home priesthood for families and a home study church program.
I want to think it is, but I also think that it will require A LOT more worldly turmoil and destruction before Christ comes. Just an opinion/guess, Christ will come when we don’t see it coming. That’s why He wants us prepared at all times. EDIT: 2 Peter 3:10 was the scripture I was thinking about.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Just a thought – but I don’t see it this way. However, what I do see is this is the Lord’s attempt at bringing this country (USA) together. I mean think about it for a second. We have become so divided since 2016. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Remember 9/11? Remember how close Americans came together?
Just a thought. Not saying that I am right – but just something to ponder.
I prefer to look at it as people choosing to come together when something bad happens as opposed to God inflicting something bad on humanity with the purpose of making people come together. I reject a god that uses torture to get what he wants. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cadence wrote:
I reject a god that uses torture to get what he wants.
Me too. God clearly allows such things but I don’t believe God instigates or perpetrates them.
DarkJedi wrote:
Cadence wrote:
I reject a god that uses torture to get what he wants.
Me too. God clearly allows such things but I don’t believe God instigates or perpetrates them.
My apologies. This is what I meant to say. Sorry.
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