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Old-Timer wrote:
Do we have Heber tell him we should be ready with a decision by the end of the weekend – and then have Heber communicate an official decision on Monday?
To further this…he sent me about 2 more pleasant emails this afternoon, kinda joking with me and acknowledging he over reacted about a dumb internet thing.
My honest read of him is that he knows he will not be fitting in here and doesn’t care to get support at StayLDS, and actually has little interest to post anymore. It is the principle of being banned that is setting him off, and he is now associating the church excommunication as his association with StayLDS.com’s fault for excommunication, and now being excommunicated from the org that caused his excommunication. (get all that???
:crazy: )In all honesty, this whole thing is way over blown and will easily blow over if we don’t fan the flames. (I will add, however overblown it became, the moderation was justified and needed…it served its purpose the way it was intended).
My recommendation:
1. Wait until Monday so more time passes to cool things down
2. Reinstate him with the reminder of the rules
3. This issue goes away, his principle of being banned by the org that got him ex’d (inaccurate as it is) goes away, and we’ll likely see he won’t care much to participate enough to be a problem.
4. All future moderation to be done by someone other than Ray (preferably female) so that issue is also taken out of his ammunition of excuses for his behavior.
5. Ray express to us other mods in this Mod-only forum should any action need to take place, and I step away as his babysitter or translator, and let a female voice handle him next with little tolerance for coaching him anymore…he either controls his bi-polar/emotional behavior or he is gone…he’s had about 6 or 7 strikes already and can’t take up our time like this anymore.
But…we give him a chance before assuming we know what he’ll do…and my guess is it goes away.
That’s my take.
I’m cool with that. I’m not thrilled with his childish behavior on NOM, though. I was being pretty open with him and diplomatic, and he accused me of being silly and deceitful and then acted to Heber like there was some big cover-up conspiracy. I’ve already got teenagers to deal with on a daily basis and employees with dramas and immaturity.
Also, not sure I qualify as a female since he accused me of being silly and deceitful. Basically, unlike some folks, I have low tolerance for drama. Life is short.
Old-Timer wrote:I think it might show how serious he is if we tell him he has to re-register, using an identifiable but different username
from a different IP address. That might be easier said than done. Wouldn’t his IP (or range of IPs) be at the mercy of his ISP? I certainly don’t think that we want to teach him how to get around an IP ban via using proxies. (despite my rather lengthy list of IPs I’ve posted from I’ve never used a proxies – travel, work tunneling their traffic through everywhere under the sun, etc. – not speaking from experience, just sayin’)
I agree – his IP address is kind of tough to change. Making him change his handle is not a bad idea, and doing a re-intro is also a nice touch. As I asked him, though, why does he want to come back?
His exact words to me:
Quote:I actually don’t mind being “banned” and will not contribute much even if I do get back, which is not new…haven’t been around much in two years. What bothers me is having my account deleted, like I never existed to begin with, and having my IP addresses blocked.
Like I said, he doesn’t really care to come back, he just cares that he is being told he can’t come back.So let’s tell him he can come back…so he can respond…”No thanks.”
That worked with my teenage son.
The real irony is that, if his own words from back in the day are correct, it was his involvement at NOM that got his family mad at him and got him labeled an apostate. They actually saw this site as better than NOM. Rich, indeed. 🙂 I still am trying to figure out how to unban an IP address, and I also don’t want to be how he learns to get around such a ban. If his wife still has the same IP address, he can comment from her account and just start each comment with, “This is cwald. Jwald is letting me post today.”
Well, I’m a little chagrinned if he really doesn’t care about being here. I hope he does care and comes back on decent terms. I think if he senses he’s not being engaged or taken seriously by the men with whom he identifies here, he won’t participate at all. Hope not, but that’s my guess. Quote:Both you and hawk said you would go to bat for me and had nothing to do with this.
Also, I didn’t say either of those things. He’s delusional. I don’t need to go to bat for him (nor did I say I would), and I absolutely didn’t say I had nothing to do with this – I did say I joined the party late because I hadn’t been following the thread where he was over the line until it was pointed out. That’s not saying I had nothing to do with this nor that I couldn’t do anything about it basically. I still don’t like that he’s misrepresenting what happened, and I think he’s a loose cannon. But I am, generally-speaking, too light a touch on the modding.
Quote:he’s misrepresenting what happened
– This part does worry me.
People who are in transition are hoping the team here is reliable. Not perfect or a replacement for leaders, but a safe source. If this type of explosion continues it really could effect the board mission. By count 4 of us were misrepresented on 2 boards. I do believe in kindness, do-overs, second or seventh chances but I want to keep the other board participants, including lurkers in my mind as we proceed to think.
I’m not opposed to the plan but I am also not totally sold on cwald’s contrition and willingness to comply over the long term. Just sayin’ – this thread (although interrupted) has been going on for a long time by itself. What happens if he doesn’t do as we ask? DarkJedi wrote:What happens if he doesn’t do as we ask?
He is gone without a second thought. Seriously.hawkgrrrl wrote:I don’t need to go to bat for him (nor did I say I would), and I absolutely didn’t say I had nothing to do with this
Exactly the same with me, HG. He is misrepresenting us, as he did with Ray. This just validates Ray…as cwald has been putting his interpretations as if that was what was said…when we can see it wasn’t. He’s lost credibility. It tells me a lot about his own excommunication as well.
I just had a thought: What if we tell him openly and directly that all of the moderators are concerned about future blow-ups on his part and that he has said explicitly that he doesn’t want to participate here anymore. What if we tell him that we would love to have him back whenever he reaches the point where he can want to be here for the sake of the type of discussions we have – when he feels we can help him. At that point, he can reach out to Heber and ask to participate actively again – but it has to be at least the beginning of June.
Quote:What if we tell him openly and directly that all of the moderators are concerned about future blow-ups on his part and that he has said explicitly that he doesn’t want to participate here anymore. What if we tell him that we would love to have him back whenever he reaches the point where he can want to be here for the sake of the type of discussions we have – when he feels we can help him. At that point, he can reach out to Heber and ask to participate actively again – but it has to be at least the beginning of June.
I think it’s a good one.
:thumbup: Old-Timer wrote:I just had a thought:
What if we tell him openly and directly that all of the moderators are concerned about future blow-ups on his part and that he has said explicitly that he doesn’t want to participate here anymore. What if we tell him that we would love to have him back whenever he reaches the point where he can want to be here for the sake of the type of discussions we have –
when he feels we can help him. At that point, he can reach out to Heber and ask to participate actively again – but it has to be at least the beginning of June. I like the italicized line. This blow up came as part of cwald attempting to “help” someone else (at least from his point of view). The comments we have become concerned about are when he has tried to help. Most of us come to the point where we are more of the helpers than the helpees, and it’s pretty clear cwald has not needed our help in some time – I don’t recall him ever asking for help in the time I have been here. If he really doesn’t care about being here, can we emphasize with him the part about him needing help (which often can be found without making any comments at all) as opposed to him offering help? I recognize that this might be offensive to him because one of the points he seemed to try to make on the other site was that he was only innocently helping (answering Bear’s question). But such a stance (him needing/asking for help as opposed to him offering help) would seem to alleviate all of his potentially offensive posts. Just thinking out loud.
I’ve been PMing with a mod on NOM, and so I wanted to share a few thoughts with you all. If we are over there, let’s just participate in the comments and drop the StayLDS thing. I got pissed that cwald was basically stating that people on StayLDS are cool with the essays saying “just shy of 15 years old” when nobody here thinks that’s OK. He’s the worst possible ambassador for us, for obvious reasons. I am concerned because NOM is certainly the least negative of the sites to the left of StayLDS. It doesn’t behoove us to get in a war with our nearest neighbor. She says that there are many participants at NOM who are very upset – her inbox is blowing up – due to a few things: 1) statements made on StayLDS about NOM not being a soft place to land, 2) cwald’s mistreatment and our mischaracterization of what happened (lots of victim rescuers among the disaffected), and 3) references about either site on the other site. So, I suggest we simply drop it (most of you have already done so).
For me, I’m just not going to go to NOM because I get frustrated with the tone and cwald’s slurs. Every time I have gone there, I’ve regretted it later. Life is too short. It’s nothing against the mods who I think are on the whole good people. One thing I learned through this whole thing is that some of the NOM participants who don’t go to StayLDS think our site is more cerebral. I would never have characterized it that way, but having gone back to NOM in the last few days, I now see it. The conversations really frustrate me.
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