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During the initiatory, I was told “Brother Shawn, having authority, I place this garment upon you, which you must wear throughout your life.” I knew beforehand this would happen, so it wasn’t a surprise. Perhaps the act of receiving the initiatory and endowment constitutes a covenant regarding the garment. I don’t think I have to raise my hand and agree to each covenant separately – it was a package deal. Of course, others will see it differently. I wonder if “as instructed in the temple” refers to the less formal instruction given by a temple worker before someone is endowed.
Quote:I wonder if “as instructed in the temple” refers to the less formal instruction given by a temple worker before someone is endowed.
That’s an interesting question, but I hope not, since that informal instruction varies from worker to worker – and I don’t believe in ANY covenant between a patron and a worker.
Shawn wrote:Just to be sure, do you know about “short” garments?
No, please tell me more. If they have them, I will wear them.
SilentDawning wrote:Shawn wrote:Just to be sure, do you know about “short” garments?
No, please tell me more. If they have them, I will wear them.
Well, a few months ago I bought some bottoms that were size 34s (okay, that’s not my actual waist size) and I found out the “s” stands for “short.” I just looked at the online store and found it asks for “Stature” before the waist size. The options are Short, Regular, Tall, and Extra Tall. These options might be fairly new.Any update? Has the subject come up again? Thanks for caring and asking. When she asked me this question, I indicated I couldn’t talk right then. That was true as I was in the middle of some urgent work, and the question required more thought than I could give at the time. She left my office and never brought it up again. I may solve the problem by looking into the short garments option Shawn mentioned. That will make the problem go away for now. If that alternative is not feasible, then I will go with the answer that they don’t fit me, and that I think it’s irreverent to wear them in a hot climate where shorts are necessary, and the garments hang below my knees. I will also agree to wear them when the church comes out with a policy that allows me to alter the length so they fit me. Let her know I put up with the discomfort and misfit for three decades and finally could not take it anymore.
A while ago, we were talking about something else, and she asked me a question about something. I can’t remember what it was, but it was gospel related. I answered something like “Well, they [mormons] believe…..”
She said “you sound like you don’t believe it yourself”. When I told her what I really thought, she burst into tears and looked completely shattered. I back-pedaled and softened what I said until she was satisfied, and she has been back to normal ever since.
This showed me just how shattering it will be to my daughter if I ever tell her how I really feel about certain aspects of our religion. The day will come eventually; these items so far are simply indications of things to come. Not sure what I will do.
My 10 year old son does not care about the gospel at all, however. I don’t think he’ll be disappointed I am no longer the TBM I once was.
I would answer your children honestly and tell them the exact same thing you told all of us one here. Except maybe in a manner that would be easy for your children to understand. Personally, I believe if you are not honest with your children you are doing them and yourself a serious disservice. This is my belief for four reasons: 1. You have a right to be honest about your feelings
2. Let you kids know that it is okay to not fit the mold of a typical Mormon so they don’t experience the same feelings you experience someday when they are older
3. Having to lie to your family stinks
4. Keeping secrets can impact you negatively emotionally and physically
Quote:3. Having to lie to your family stinks
I agree, but nothing Silent Dawning said in any of these comments is a lie. That’s important to realize.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:3. Having to lie to your family stinks
I agree, but nothing Silent Dawning said in any of these comments is a lie. That’s important to realize.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that Silent Dawning was lying. What I should have written and was trying to communicate is that not feeling free to be open with your family members can stink.
Amen. Yes, it does stink. But remember, we are rarely ever totally, brutally honest with people. In my work, I just got a new boss. She is a micromanager, unappreciative, punitive. The two managers under her both submitted their resignations recently, and veteran employees have left her office in near tears after she has evaluated their performance. I had to meet with her over another micro-managing issue where she put me on the defensive about something previous management approved.
If I said “You know, in the last month you’ve taken over, you are alienated your management team, destroyed the morale of key faculty, and have gotten a reputation for being an authoritarian, micromanaging bureaucrat. Personally, I don’t like you, and if you weren’t paying for me to complete a PhD I’d be looking for a new job. Every day I drag myself to work because your behavior is so uninspiring. I would suggest that if you are going to make it through your probationary period, that you do X, Y, Z”.
Now, that is EXACTLY how I feel. But it would be unwise to say it.
Same with my family, I don’t know how I will feel about the church in years to come, and for now, my daughter has built a beautiful if not naive world of eternal family, blessings for child like obedience, and a world where God looks after his children like sheep in a flock. I am not about to upset that for her. So, I view it as being careful, not being untruthful. You can be honest to the point of impropriety. It will be very hard to undo the testimonial damage I could do by sharing my true thoughts on church culture and even history. And I also have to think about my wife’s goals and aspirations for our children. She would be disturbed if I came out with brutal honesty. She is a stakeholder in this too.
I’m on the Amazon plan now. I call it the Amazon plan because they have a website pricing strategy that is an analogy for what I’m doing here. They have paperback, mass produced books that have fallen in price to $0.01. They also have kindle, hardcover and collectible versions that are worth substantially more. They don’t want to control the supply by removing the $0.01 books from their website (most are used and would alienate their small vendors if they prohibited them), so they force you to click on a drop down list to see the cheap books.
They make it hard for you to get to the cheap books.
In my own life, my current feelings about the church are the cheap books. I am not going to broadcast them when there are other views on the church that might serve my wife and family better.
SilentDawning wrote:Yes, it does stink. But remember, we are rarely ever totally, brutally honest with people. In my work, I just got a new boss. She is a micromanager, unappreciative, punitive. The two managers under her both submitted their resignations recently, and veteran employees have left her office in near tears after she has evaluated their performance.
IMHO, honesty or being open with family as compared to a boss are two different things in my book. Not telling your boss that she is unappreciative and punitive is just being smart.
To me, it would be just as foolhardy to openly share my concerns with a fledgling TBM — particularly when I don’t have anything better to offer her right now. No, I’m not going to shatter her bubble — particularly when there isn’t unaniminity with my wife. And plus, I leave myself open to come around again to a more committed way of life in the church. It’s much easier to just start back up again than it would be to have to backpedal. I’m sticking with my plan.
SilentDawning wrote:I’m sticking with my plan.
Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to get you to change your mind. I totally understand not wanting to rock the boat, particularly in your home. Sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices for the sake of making our families happy. Best of luck!
Quote:Sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices for the sake of making our families happy.
It’s much more than sometimes – and it often is noble and absolutely the right things to do.
I learned a long time ago that my life isn’t only my life once I bring other lives into my family. I’m not “me” anymore; I’m part of “we”.
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