- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:
Sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices for the sake of making our families happy.
It’s much more than sometimes – and it often is noble and absolutely the right things to do.
I learned a long time ago that my life isn’t only my life once I bring other lives into my family. I’m not “me” anymore; I’m part of “we”.
Yes….and I remember that the TBM way of thinking served me well for about two decades – just as it is serving my daughter VERY well. One of the conclusions I’ve reached here is that part of my own struggles have to do with my personality. I still respect my personality (too). But my personality is not my daughter’s personality. My way of thinking would be wrong for her at this phase in her life. It is the perspective of a person who understands the complexities of life, the temporally-motivated side of the church, the spiritually-motivated side, and the way people grow and change as they accumulate life experiences.
Milk before meat….and my daughter is not yet ready for meat.
I would say it’s more apples for some, pot roast for others. Some people are lactose intolerant; others love a vegan diet; some are diabetic; some need gluton-free food (however you spell that word). I think people, even children, can handle whatever doesn’t give them severe indigestion, diarrhea, abdominal cramps or even cancer – and I’m not about to force any of that on someone who is doing just fine.
Old-Timer wrote:I would say it’s more apples for some, pot roast for others.
Some people are lactose intolerant; others love a vegan diet; some are diabetic; some need gluton-free food (however you spell that word). I think people, even children, can handle whatever doesn’t give them severe indigestion, diarrhea, abdominal cramps or even cancer – and I’m not about to force any of that on someone who is doing just fine.
Agreed. When I started sharing unorthodox views with her recently, it was like I fed her something that didn’t agree with her.
I love reading this thread. I watched the video “Why people leave the Mormon church” that was louder than I thought last Saturday night, my almost 13 year son came in and said “MOM! That is so loud. … uh, do you want to come watch something with me and dad”. I am pretty sure he was disturbed about what he heard. I feel really ashamed that I didn’t take the time to talk to him about it yet. I don’t know how I feel or what I believe so I am afraid to talk to my children about it. SD, I totally feel for you as I am in the same position. I agree that it isn’t just me, I have to do what is best for our entire family. I am taking it one day at a time. I “hide” my tea from my kids and even coffee from my husband. (That part I don’t feel good about… I don’t like hiding anything from him and just the fact that I have to hide it makes me feel that I need to reevaluate my beliefs about drinking it). Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think you are doing great. It is so nice to come here and hear how other people are dealing with change.
opentofreedom wrote:I love reading this thread. I watched the video “Why people leave the Mormon church” that was louder than I thought last Saturday night, my almost 13 year son came in and said “MOM! That is so loud. … uh, do you want to come watch something with me and dad”. I am pretty sure he was disturbed about what he heard. I feel really ashamed that I didn’t take the time to talk to him about it yet. I don’t know how I feel or what I believe so I am afraid to talk to my children about it. SD, I totally feel for you as I am in the same position. I agree that it isn’t just me, I have to do what is best for our entire family. I am taking it one day at a time. I “hide” my tea from my kids and even coffee from my husband. (That part I don’t feel good about… I don’t like hiding anything from him and just the fact that I have to hide it makes me feel that I need to reevaluate my beliefs about drinking it).
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think you are doing great. It is so nice to come here and hear how other people are dealing with change.
Thanks. I believe that when you make the decision to openly not follow the visible habits of our religion, you have to accept that you may move your family off the beaten path. I am doing that with garments. My son asked my wife to buy him a pair of regular underclothing that is a switch from his normal style because that is what Dad does. So he knows.
Also, the things you say in your family about the church may not have a visible impact. But like the Chinese bamboo tree (it has 7 years or no visible growth, and then shoots up 80 feet in one year. The 7 years is an invisible root structure to support the tree), one day your children may well adopt the same attitudes you talk about at home. So, I think you have to envision a world in which your children adopt the same behavior and standing in the church as you have now. Can you live with that? If not, it means you have to be prepared for the tough discussion with them when they ask you why you don’t comply.
I learned that I have a hard time accepting my daughter would be left to figure out an entirely different spiritual path due to my own lack of compliance. When she broke into tears I knew I could not live with that. I don’t know how this will turn out, but at least the problem is at bay for the time being.
SD, I hope you keep posting about how it is going with your family.. I love hearing about it and getting ideas from what works or doesn’t work for others. Cute about your son “like dad does” … I hope you daughter finds peace as well. My 8 year old is really sensitive as well. I think she overheard me (and I KNOW children perceive and understand SO much more than what they think even if she didn’t hear me)… she has been extra clingy, extra “obedient” to church stuff”. Now that I have laid off, went to church, not talking about anything negative anywhere near my kids and really trying to have a better attitude she has chilled out. But I am not sure how much longer I can do this. I hope I can come to a place of peace with the church and the “rules”. I have glimpses and moments of it. Then I am right back at anger and feelings of rebellion. I hope I can teach my children to not follow anyone but their own Christ conscious/higher self. I am having a harder time the past few days.. but I know good days and clarity and ability to see all colors (which isn’t that what white/purity?)… are coming. I have a hard time telling the difference between what I want to do and rebellion at times. Does that even make sense? I am actually going to do a post on the support page regarding this.
Yes. I fight rebellion regularly. I do have a fair amount of latent anger toward the church given some of the experiences I’ve had. I’ve emoted enough here that I’m sick of telling them. But I am jaded about whether the church really has our interests at heart, and its ability to live up to its own claims. In our new Ward, I had to really fight to simply stay quiet in meetings when people discussed church matters on which I disagree. For example, the “chapel cleaning is a wonderful experience” discussion in Gospel Doctrine recently. Or the “splitting wards gives people more opportunities to serve” argument — when I believe its meant to make more efficient use of buildings to reduce capital costs. Or the comment that the church really isn’t all that wealthy because buildings are “expensive to maintain”, when in fact, they are profit centers, from an accounting perspective. Anyway, yes, I fight the rebellion. But I am winning. I distract myself by sorting out my wallet receipts, ideating on issues in my life right now, reading my Kindle, or making phone calls outside the building when my family is occupied in meetings and generally using the time for introspection. I keep to myself in the Ward because I can no longer collaborate with people like I use to. Nor can I teach the gospel anymore. But I can support my family and stay off the radar as much as possible.
She asked me again why I don’t wear them…..last time, if you remember, I deflected the question and never gave a decent answer. But posting here helped me come up with the one answer — that wearing garments that don’t fit and hang down below your knees is not reverent or suitable for sacred clothing. I told her that as soon as the church makes garments that fit me, I will wear them. She said “why don’t you wear half of them — the top half”. I replied that someone once said that “half a set of garments is a good as no garments at all” so I don’t wear the top either.
I also explained that I have been wearing these clothes that don’t fit me for over 30 years now and finally, one day, when someone saw them hanging below my knee, I decided I had enough of that and felt MUCH better with under clothes that fit me. One size fits all (or, a few sizes fit everyone, when they don’t actually meet the needs of some of us).
She walked away apparently understanding, but who knows what damage this has done…
SilentDawning wrote:She asked me again why I don’t wear them…..last time, if you remember, I deflected the question and never gave a decent answer. But posting here helped me come up with the one answer — that wearing garments that don’t fit and hang down below your knees is not reverent or suitable for sacred clothing.
I told her that as soon as the church makes garments that fit me, I will wear them. She said “why don’t you wear half of them — the top half”. I replied that someone once said that “half a set of garments is a good as no garments at all” so I don’t wear the top either.
I also explained that I have been wearing these clothes that don’t fit me for over 30 years now and finally, one day, when someone saw them hanging below my knee, I decided I had enough of that and felt MUCH better with under clothes that fit me. One size fits all (or, a few sizes fit everyone, when they don’t actually meet the needs of some of us).
She walked away apparently understanding, but who knows what damage this has done…
Sorry to hear about your issues with your kids.Someone mentioned a while back about the “s” garments. Have you given those a try? I wear them when I usually wear shorts because of the length. The workers at the store always look at me funny when I get the “short” shorts and the tall tops (short and big bellied – not the greatest combo).
Best of luck to you and your journey. Just be there for your kids and the church part will work itself out.
Quote:Someone mentioned a while back about the “s” garments. Have you given those a try? I wear them when I usually wear shorts because of the length. The workers at the store always look at me funny when I get the “short” shorts and the tall tops (short and big bellied – not the greatest combo).
I suggest you make your purchases over the internet, where there’s no opportunity for someone to question the suitability of your purchase.
Quote:“I suggest you make your purchases over the internet, where there’s no opportunity for someone to question the suitability of your purchase.”
Amen.
I just wanted to add that I went to the distribution center recently with DW. DW usually buys my garments as she holds a TR. I asked the ladies if I could purchase garments without a TR and they told me, “As long as you have been endowed, you can purchase whatever you need.” They could look me up via the computer. I can only assume that they would redflag me if I had been somehow blacklisted, but a TR is not required. I’m happy with the response. I bought a short pair online yesterday and will see how they fit…..I had no problems with qualifying to buy them.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.