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[note: I have really enjoyed Dan’s comments and inputs through all parts of this podcast.] I was listening to part 6 of the “LDS to Atheism” podcast where Dan Wotherspoon threw out some thoughts about StayLDS and specifically the idea of helping people transition toward Fowler stage 5 [starting about 17:30]. His thoughts were – in short – that you can’t just think or talk your way into stage 5, it takes some life experiences to actually transition from one stage to the next.
I think he has a valid point, and I just have a couple thoughts about how that applies to us.
First, I don’t think our only objective here is to “help people transition to Fowler stage 5” …so they can continue on their way at peace again with church activity. I see our work here as providing a community of support …with a focus toward more positive than negative about the church. I think it’s healthy for people to be able to raise issues and question without being in an environment where the overwhelming opinion is that “people find the truth then they LEAVE the church.” Of course that’s my opinion.
Second, I do think people are more likely to transition toward a “stage 5” way of thinking, maybe a little sooner, if they are given these ideas to think about and digest. I understand that an external application is far removed from personally taking an idea to heart. I agree that even beyond digestion is having a principle take root through life experience and begin a life of its own. But personally I see value in casting seeds – even to the wind.
In the end I wouldn’t say we are the “catch all” solution for anyone experiencing a faith crisis, but I’m glad we’re here.
We must be on the same track listening to that podcast. I just heard that part during my commute this morning. My first reaction was defensive, because now many people out there in our world are parroting that line about how “John doesn’t recommend StayLDS anymore…” But you know what? I decided it makes sense. It reignited my rebellious passion for being different. We are NOT going to be embraced by Stage 3 Mormons, or Stage 4 types who are too fresh at it, or who reach a natural equilibrium in Stage 4. The people who are really going to “Get” the StayLDS purpose are those who are interested in thinking about Stage 5 approaches. We continue to attract the right people. I’m good with that. They say there’s no such thing as bad PR.
It doesn’t matter how many times we point this out, that we are NOT here to tell everyone to stay in the Church, the wrong people just are not going to get it. That’s OK. As many times as I tell people not to expect or depend on validation from TBM’s when they hit crisis, *WE* also can not depend on validation from those who aren’t interested in what we are talking about.
We are here to mentor people who WANT to try and figure out how to do this. There’s no textbook or class to take, so we form a community to figure it out and share our experiences.
I was very impressed with Dan’s observation that Stage 5 isn’t something in our mind that one can simply read about and learn. It comes from life experience. He said something like “You have to live or experience your way into it.” Brilliant!
I am curious and was thinking of contacting him privately. He comes across very stage 5-ish, and seems open to the continued experience of the metaphysical or mystical. I’d love to have a chat with him about what he personally thinks of StayLDS, just to get a perspective.
I concur completely with Brian. :geek: Not much of a surprise there.
Yes, it sounded to me that Dan was speaking from experience when he said stage 4 could be a 10 to 15 year process. I think he’s been in the journey for that long. I’m interested in checking out the podcast and listening to the context of it. I guess I am not sure about the angle of which stage we’re in or are pushing people towards.
The website describes the mission pretty clearly:
Quote:StayLDS.com is dedicated to helping people who are struggling in some way to remain involved in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after a major shift in (or challenge to) their faith. We are committed to being a supportive, positive environment in which people with any difficulty can commune openly and honestly in a spirit of love and support.
We don’t prescribe how that “help” or “support” will happen…but more just want people to not feel they have to be angry or take drastic actions or destroy important relationships. That could be to go back to stage 3, stay in stage 4 for a while, or find changes that lead to stage 5. Do any of those options really matter to us? I don’t think so.
I concur completely with Heber. :geek: Not much of a surprise there.
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