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http://mormonstories.org/tom-kimball-and-dan-wotherspoon-7-years-after-stages-of-faith/ If anyone has listened to this podcast, I’d like to hear your thoughts, especially re. part 2. The thought-provoking stuff for me came at the very end – the value of every religion, the need for every person to “champion” their beliefs, reference to a book he’s co-authoring (“Fighting About God” I think), “better” conflicts can produce good results, not feeling fearful for our salvation because of our exploration, chicken and egg/ritual and myth, we play different instruments in the orchestra and Mormonism is
notthe full orchestra, etc. He compared the source of religion to a volcano, but we spend too much time on the dry, cold lava beds. “I survive and thrive in the Mormon community because I try to touch the fire every day.”
I have listened to the whole thing and found it very enjoyable. It was hard to listen to Tom tell about being pushed out of the church by a insensitive and unflexable bishop. You could really hear the devotion and love in his voice for his fellow members and it is down right unacceptable to lose people like him from the church. Dan has walked a long road and made peace with a lot of mormon doctrine and history. He experience and education allow him to see past the warts of the church to see the good. I think he finds value in being part of the community. It was mentioned that he also had some leaders that accepted his nuanced views and a ward that loved him and his family despite his orthoprax beliefs.
If more leaders amd members were like those of his ward then we might not push out so many members that want to enjoy the community and ritual of mormonism without the guilt and cognitive dissonance.
I don’t know that there was too much of a difference between Dan and Tom. I felt Dan was one bad bishop away from being Tom. Sad really. It’s why I fight my urge to tell the bishop how I really feel. Part of me feels it would make me feel better to not hide it. But it’s like playing a slot machine with what result you get. So I shut my mouth… In light of the recent thread about being a “project,” I thought an “oops” incident from Tom in Part 3 was interesting. He and his family (nearly all now estranged from the church) had gone back to church just one Sunday for his son’s missionary (non-) farewell talk. He said the YW leaders pounced on the opportunity to reach out to his daughters. The leaders gave them all envelopes and instructions to write something encouraging to his girls. Tom said they must not have read the notes before going into the envelopes, though, because several of them told his daughters, in effect, “The minute I’m old enough, I’m out of this church like you.” I wondered if they resented being whipped up on a moment’s notice by their leaders to pretend to concern they didn’t have and happiness they don’t feel. I think we just need to slow down and be real!
That’s a funny but sad story, Ann. It also is SO instructive. Quote:I think we just need to slow down and be real!
Amen – and quit doing things for a reason other than simple, pure love and service. Expectations, in that setting, suck.
wuwei wrote:I don’t know that there was too much of a difference between Dan and Tom. I felt Dan was one bad bishop away from being Tom. Sad really. It’s why I fight my urge to tell the bishop how I really feel. Part of me feels it would make me feel better to not hide it. But it’s like playing a slot machine with what result you get. So I shut my mouth…
About three years ago my wife and I met with a high councilor to be called to help in the YSA branch in our stake. It was strange because he seemed a little flustered and said something like “we appreciate what you do in the church and I’m sure you have testimonies…” and then asked us if we’d serve. I’ve wondered since what I would have said if he’d phrased that differently but I know that if it came up again I wouldn’t tell them something they didn’t need to know or didn’t want to hear.
I have listened to a fair amount of Dans stuff. He is the king of nuance. He could take A belief in Leprechauns and turn it into a study of the value of four leaf clovers. I get why he does it but for me it is annoying. It comes across as a means of cheating. A way to have his cake and eat it to. Tom seemed more real to me. At least he owned up and says he is a non believer and suffered the consequences. Of course he would have been better off to just stay silent and ignore the bishop.
Cadence wrote:I have listened to a fair amount of Dans stuff. He is the king of nuance. He could take A belief in Leprechauns and turn it into a study of the value of four leaf clovers. I get why he does it but for me it is annoying. It comes across as a means of cheating. A way to have his cake and eat it to.
I understand where you’re coming from Cadence, but with all due respect I think you’re missing the essence of what Dan is expressing. I see it as he is not letting small and mostly insignificant things stand in the way of his “big picture” objectives. He loves so much in Mormonism, why let some differences in understanding stand in the way of the joy and soul expansion he gains from participation?
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