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I like SPG over at NOM. He’s different, for sure. But that is why he is so interesting. Joseph Smith had all sorts of visitations from angels and said some really goofy stuff but it did not seem to have any detrimental effect on attracting women. I think the very nature of the church teaches us that angels and such are visiting us all the time. And sure if you can come up with some outlandish story how you are special and get such visits then many people feel it elevates them within the culture. It is all in the presentation. If a deacon says Moroni is visiting him then we tend to dismiss it. If Thomas Monson says Nephi appeared to him we are all ears. It is just a matter of degrees.
When I was young I was so caught up in this priesthood power thing I was convinced I was going to be called to some great mission that would change the course of history and usher in the second coming. I was able to grow out of childish things, some men do not and the church feeds their fantasies.
The truly spiritual people I know make no claims of the supernatural. It is their even temperament and their thoughtful approach that makes them special to me. When someone claims the supernatural I dismiss it completely. Not because I deny it could happen but it so often seems it is worn like a badge of honor to gain glory.
When it comes to Joseph Smith there is a lot that had happened to him as it relates to his visits by Heavenly Beings – God, the Father, The Savior, Angel Moroni, Peter, James, and John, etc.. One thing I can’t deny about my involvement with the church is the very palpable influence of the Holy Ghost that I have had from time to time. In spite of my bad social experiences with church members, one thing that keeps me anchored to believing something special about the church is that of a strong and deep influence from the Holy Ghost I have had from time to time.
Though these experiences from the Holy Ghost are real to me – no one can see these experiences and I can only speak of them happening to me.
Actually, what is interesting about the topic of this thread is that my disaffection for the church happened at a time when I was involved in the ysa community. I liked a woman in our congregation and I had come to believe she was one who the Lord wanted me to marry. What was so difficult about this belief was that I couldn’t prove or disprove this to anyone. It was just a belief I had because of experiences and coincidences I had at the time I knew this woman. The uphill struggle happened when I shared with a “friend” what I believed about her and later I found out he had shared what I believed with the woman I liked with a “interpreted” version. The interpreted version was “i fasted and prayed and got an answer i should marry her” (in which I never said any such thing about fasting or praying to my supposed “friend”).
Anyway, it’s a long story, and I don’t want to bore people with the details, but in a nutshell I got socially turned off from my church congregation and became inactive.
Arwen wrote:do you believe you are an angle? or and angel for that matter?
Well, as I understand it, weren’t we all angels in the pre-existence and will be angels in the afterlife? (At least according to LDS theology). Not something I particularly concentrate on in my religious practice, but I am kind of under that impression.
Quote:Are you Sparticus?
Isn’t everybody? (According to the film)
Quote:Do you believe that Alma is visiting you?
Well, if I’m going to answer that honestly. I did have some very curious dreams when coming back to the church. Apart from occasionally feeling I’m not the only person in an empty room, I haven’t really had “angelic” experiences. That could be equally attributed to haunting I guess.
But Alma? I think the BoM is inspired, but I’m not sure I consider it historical…
Quote:Do you like dogs???
Yeah, I quite like them. Although they can get a bit dirty and they take a lot of time (liked the walks, didn’t like the cleaning up). I had a rescue dog I loved to bits for several years, but had to get him rehomed because I was going to college, and spending twelve hours or more out of the house.
cwald wrote:
Well, actually, he has. He has multiple threads about his visits with Moroni.I’m guessing this is a joke… but… how should we interpret dreams? I have never had what you could call a “vision”, but I have had curious dreams about various spiritual matters. Since dreams originate, at least partially, in the unconscious, I think that they can be treated a little differently to outward signs.
Quote:There have been many many pro atheist threads, and only recently have folks started to call for more moderate tone. Yep, I get what you are saying.
Aggressive atheists, so called “free thinkers”, hijacked the ex-Mormon board years ago. Really negative stuff, not really understanding that there is some value in religion beyond just a moral code. I got quite angry about it, and haven’t been anywhere near there for years.
SamBee wrote:cwald wrote:
Well, actually, he has. He has multiple threads about his visits with Moroni.I’m guessing this is a joke…
Ahh, no. He believes he has been visited by Moroni on multiple occasions.
I am not joking or exaggerating in any way.
And I think Spock makes a good point…when SPG says he had a visit from Moroni, we call him crazy. But members have no problem following JS who claims to have had the exact same visitor. And if Monson claimed to see Moroni, most Mormons would accept it as true immediately.
Quote:And I think Spock makes a good point…when SPG says he had a visit from Moroni, we call him crazy. But members have no problem following JS who claims to have had the exact same visitor. And if Monson claimed to see Moroni, most Mormons would accept it as true immediately.
There’s a fine line on these things, IMHO.
Some people have these experiences and become great artists e.g. William Blake, and others are just having “divergent mental experiences”.
SamBee wrote:Some people have these experiences and become great artists e.g. William Blake, and others are just having “divergent mental experiences”.
People who contribute to great advances in culture and in science are often a little crazy. To put it in more productive terms: they are not restricted and held back by the oppressive need to synchronize their reality with the majority. That freedom lets them see things from radically different perspectives that reveal important insights.
Another case example: John Nash (the movie “A Beautiful Mind” was loosely based on his story), who made major advances in mathematics and won a Nobel Prize in Economics.
Well, in my claim to fame of dating whack-o men I actually dated Chris Nem elka a few times. It wasn’t very long before I figured out that he was nutso, wow. I didn’t want any part of his changing the world. (A google search will reveal much.) I did find me a very, very normal guy. Not much of a peter priesthood but he is the bishop and I can guarantee that no angels are talking to him.
😆 Brian Johnston wrote:John Nash (the movie “A Beautiful Mind” was loosely based on his story)
Very loosely!
😆 cwald wrote:Ahh, no. He believes he has been visited by Moroni on multiple occasions.
I am not joking or exaggerating in any way.
And I think Spock makes a good point…when SPG says he had a visit from Moroni, we call him crazy. But members have no problem following JS who claims to have had the exact same visitor. And if Monson claimed to see Moroni, most Mormons would accept it as true immediately.
I may be splitting hairs, but Cwald, if you get a chance, could you post a link to the thread you mentioned about SPG & Moroni visits?I can’t help but wonder if you misinterpreted him as many do.
IE: I’ve seen him write about the spirit of love, of exploration, of loneliness… etc… Maybe that’s what he was referring to but he may have based it on someone’s issue with Moroni. Or it could be that in reading the story of Moroni he was inspired by the spirit, even though he’s said he believes that the Book of Mormon and Mormonism in general is more based on principle & “spirit” than on fact.
Back to the OP:
There are strange people of ALL ages.
My first “love” when I was 14, & he was 18 told me he was part of the mafia (he was so full of it but I believed him!)
An LDS guy proposed to me after dating a few times.
😯 But you know what? Maybe they were just messing with me, like I messed with some…
On a blind date, I pretended to be from Sweden (only my accent changed to more Spanish over the course of the evening – oops!)
My friend & I switched names with some long-distant guys, so when they thought they were talking to me on the phone, they were really talking to my friend.
Featherina wrote:
I may be splitting hairs, but Cwald, if you get a chance, could you post a link to the thread you mentioned about SPG & Moroni visits?…Nope. It’s not important. I’m moving on to other discussion.
I like SPG too – good guy. Very insightful. Didn’t know about the Moroni stuff. The asperbergers makes sense. OK, so I think there’s a valid point here about men who live alone for too long. My sister (who married at 34) used to say that women who lived alone just became more set in their ways and more independent. Men who live alone too long get WEIRD. I think that’s because the psychological benefit of marriage for men is that most of them depend on a wife to create their social network for them. No wife, no social network. No social network, no feedback loop, no fashion advice, and no support network. So men can get isolated and weird more easily than women. And they already are considered (stereotype alert) to be less socially adept than women, so these guys don’t understand the concept of filters on what they are disclosing to you while dating. Add the Mormon mindset to that (visions, revelation, BoM characters, angels), and you’re going to crank some off the wall stuff out of that combination.
Do I think people can have visions? Sure – dreams, whatever, that have meaning to a person. But would I go blabbing about my bedside chats with Alma to someone I was dating? Uh uh. No way.
I thought you were going to go another direction, as I’ve heard from another single 40-something LDS friend that most of the LDS men she has dated (usually they are divorced) are pretty loosely interpreting the law of chastity at this point and have some expectations about free samples (try before you buy?).
Long and short, I would not marry a crazy person. But I’d figure out if he’s really crazy, aggrandizing a vivid spiritual experience and disclosing it too openly and out of context, or just lonely and needing someone to give him more regular feedback.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Men who live alone too long get WEIRD. I think that’s because the psychological benefit of marriage for men is that most of them depend on a wife to create their social network for them. No wife, no social network. No social network, no feedback loop, no fashion advice, and no support network. So men can get isolated and weird more easily than women.
😆 “It is not good for the man to be alone.” -Genesis 2:18
God figured that one out already by the second chapter of his book, it was THAT obvious.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I thought you were going to go another direction, as I’ve heard from another single 40-something LDS friend that most of the LDS men she has dated (usually they are divorced) are pretty loosely interpreting the law of chastity at this point and have some expectations about free samples (try before you buy?).
Oh I have run into plenty of them…they are a dime a dozen…I had one tell me it’s not a sin as long as we didn’t tell the Bishop and what the Bishop don’t know won’t hurt him. He presented very TBM.
:crazy: But I have come to find that men are men, regardless of membership and priesthood standing, and that is disappointing to me most of the time…I expect Priesthood holders to have a bit more control, and sometimes they do, but usually it’s just a tiny bit. I remember the first time on a date that a TBM made a very strong sexual move towards me…threw me for a complete loop. I was in shock for a good long time after that.:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: <=== my expressions exactly. I have had many non-members do that, but it was so unexpected that I was whaaaaaaaaat????
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