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Some of you know I have a very good daughter. She’s a good kid. Very reasonable about life, and at this point, isn’t yet interested in having a boyfriend. But she now has access to her own car to get to Seminary and school, ending a long and tortuous early morning rise for two years to get her to Seminary for the parents. The issue of dating came up. She wanted to go with a teenager boy about her age on a trip to the beach — not for romanticism, but as a platonic thing — to take pictures as she is a photography nut. That is the clear impression she gave us….and we believe her. She has gone out with many other girls for such shoots in the past, and it is a creative effort for her.
It raises the whole issue of dating when kids are 16 years old and above. What position do you take with this, with your own teenagers? We have spoken to her about it, and the jury is out about what to do. These are the considerations I have going.
a) My son is not nearly as mature and pure-hearted as my daughter, so whatever “policy” we put together for my daughter, will likely be the standard by which he expects to be applied when he is of the same age as her.
b) To my daughter, a date is not a romantic event — in Utah, she says, a date means going out with a member of the opposite sex to have fun and there is often no romantic intent. She doesn’t think it’s a big deal to be alone in the car, or out and about (including the places they never intended to go originally, but ended up -at) with a member of the opposite sex. I’ve listened….
c) I know that Spencer W. Kimball indicated that cars are often the place where kids lose their virginity or at least, get promiscuous, and I believe that to be true.
d) She is interpreting this need for “policy” that we don’t trust her, which isn’t the case necessarily — we think she is a very good kid and trust her morality, but there is more than just trusting her — there is allowance for the hormones of male youth, of unexpected feelings in even the best of kids like herself, especially when there is a good, romantic relationship. I know I was a good kid and experienced strong drives that were often nearly overpowering when I was young — when exposed to opportunities.
There is no conflict here — we’ve simply discussed it and my daughter knows we are thinking about what to do about it. The “date” with the teenager fell through anyway, so there is no pressing issue, but I would like to think through this.
Thoughts on this — what the church’s position is (only one of many inputs), your own experience, etcetera? I need to develop my own philosophy and work something out with my wife so we can make it part of the family culture…
If the Church has a “position” on youth dating it would most likely be in For the Strength of Youth. My thoughts are kids are different and making a policy and trying to make it work for all isn’t going to work. Trust yourself and trust that you raised your kids well. Trust your kids to do the right thing.
To be honest, it sounds completely reasonable to have different rules for different kids becuase they all develop at different rates, but in reality that won’t work well. We followed the guidelines of dating in the FSOY as far as the age of 16 to date. We didn’t worry too much about the single vs. group dating thing about waiting unit 18. That seemed to be a bit of a stretch. I am a pretty strict parent, and my kids turned out pretty well. If my daughter wanted to go on a photo shoot with a member of the opposite sex and they were friends, I don’t think I would have had an issue, but I would have defnitely wanted to know their friend first. Honestly, there are a lot of risks when kids travel in a car somewhere together, and they aren’t just about sex.
I think it works to have a set age for dating, but I was always flexible about the details. I never had a curfew for my kids. I found when I did, they stayed out until the latest possible, even when the event was over hours before. Instead, I told them their designated time to be home based on the activity. Why let them fill their time with nothing, or have them come home before an event was over, based on a rigid curfew. The funny part about that was my daughter continued to come home around 11 pm even after she turned 18. At nearly 19 she asked why her curfew was so early, and I explained there wasn’t a curfew. She had been told to be home by 11 one time becuase the event ended about 10, and she assumed that was her curfew
😆 I never felt the need to correct her since I was perfectly content having her think she needed to be home early😆 My suggestion is to set an age for dating, and then be flexible about what is a date, and when they should be home. There is nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex, and they shouldn’t be penalized by that being called a date. You can always encourage her to bring along another friend and have all 3 of them hang out. It’s a lot of fun and helps reduce the risk of temptation.
My advice would be to come up with a list of concerns including your concerns for your son and sit down with her to come up with a solution. I would definitely bring up the idea that she shouldn’t be alone with anybody of the opposite sex, and I’m not even talking about temptation. You never really know someone the way you think you do. The majority of my friends have been either raped or molested and it was always by someone they trusted. One of my friends was actually set up with a guy who tried to rape her by one of her close guy friends. Her friend didn’t know that he was setting her up with this kind of person. He thought his friend was a “good LDS” boy with with “good LDS” roommates, but the truth is that religion isn’t really a factor. Humans are humans regardless of their choice in faith, and these were not “good boys” by anyone’s standards. I think the most important thing will be to make sure that with any policies you do lay down, you need to make sure she understands why. I was a good girl as well, and my parents had a fair amount of rules, but they had a reason for every rule. I NEVER got the “because I said so” line, and that meant a lot. They also gave me a lot of loop holes for the unforeseen. Such as telling me that if my group was going to be late getting home or was going to go to a restaurant or something after a date I just needed to call and let her know what was going on. When I had a problem with one of their rules or policies we sat down and talked about it until we came up with a solution.
I also agree with what Thoreau said about policies needing to be different for each kid. It might be good to plan ahead, but each child is so different. For instance, my brother could play video games or watch TV all day when we were young, so my parents had to put restrictions on him. I on the other hand I would work on building a website for 2-4hrs a day for about 2 days, burn out and go find something more hands on to do for the rest of the week, so they never gave me the same restrictions. My parents also bought me and my sister a more reliable car when we asked just because we were nice about it and patient as to when it happened, and they took their time with my brother because he needed a chance to realize that he couldn’t always get what he wanted right away.
The only church standards I remember are don’t date til you’re 16 and don’t steady date until you’re out of high school, but whether it was the church or my mom I was always taught also to never single date until out of high school. Eternity4me’s suggestion of have her invite another friend to go is a fantastic idea. There is safety in numbers.
Thanks….here is the link to the Strength of Youth Pamphlet. I agree with a lot of it, except the part about making marriage a high priority as soon as you are able. I see that is for the growth of the church rather than for the good of the individual — who might have different goals for life, including marriage. Life is not a baby factory for the church,,,people have different levels of maturity as well and are ready for marriage at different ages. https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/dating?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/dating?lang=eng Having two teenage daughters and knowing a large number of LDS youth well, I tend to think a 16 year minimum age for dating is wise. In my point of view there is just no hurry even if a youth is mature for her / his age. Group dating is also wise in my opinion, especially at younger ages. Yes, 16 is arbitrary but it seems like a reasonable age. For most people in the US that means kids can date as Sophomores in high school and still have 2+ years of high school to date. What do Sophomores know? Not a darn thing. Many boys push boundaries and will “keep going” until the girl says no with conviction. I believe it is more difficult to say no the younger you are.
I respectfully disagree with President Kimball about where kids get into trouble. I think most kids have sex in their own home and bed when mom and dad are away.
FSOY is nice to have something to give them not coming from you, but what the tribe agrees to…even if arbitrary age of 16, it’s not a bad guideline to go with. It was just hard for me and my kids to define what activities were dating … so the whole thing kinda fell apart for me, and I just talk to them and seem to encourage them at appropriate ages to have appropriate relationships and social experiences. It varied from child to child in my home.
But that isn’t as clean and simple as just sticking with a FSOY pamphlet, which gives a standard all the kids know they’ll be held to. I didn’t stick to it, though. Found it more work to define things rather than just talking to my kids about not being stupid.
My son is 16. He actually told me yesterday in our talk that he wants me to give him boundaries, so I can give him freedom to act within those boundaries. We had a good father-son talk about it.
Do you think your daughter would welcome FSOY because she wants to live those standards she was taught in church? If she wants that, I’d stick to that.
We pretty much followed the 16-year-old dating rule, and encouraged public dating preferably with groups. We discouraged spending time totally alone with just the two of them. In reality there is only so much a parent can do – you really can’t rightfully be at your kid’s side 24/7 and you do need to let them make their own choices. Teach them correct principles, and beyond that their choices are theirs – if they are going to let it happen, it’s going to happen. DarkJedi wrote:We pretty much followed the 16-year-old dating rule, and encouraged public dating preferably with groups. We discouraged spending time totally alone with just the two of them. In reality there is only so much a parent can do – you really can’t rightfully be at your kid’s side 24/7 and you do need to let them make their own choices. Teach them correct principles, and beyond that their choices are theirs – if they are going to let it happen, it’s going to happen.
I have tried to think about the fact that by the time they reach 16 they are only about 2 years from being on their own. Most kids that have had parents that clamped down harder at that point were just pushing on a spring that would be released once the parent wasn’t in the day to day activities. But at the same time, the maturity in the brain does not seem to really kick in until they start reaching 18 or maybe 25 for some!If you’re really that bothered, you should be thinking of a chaperone system. LookingHard wrote:DarkJedi wrote:We pretty much followed the 16-year-old dating rule, and encouraged public dating preferably with groups. We discouraged spending time totally alone with just the two of them. In reality there is only so much a parent can do – you really can’t rightfully be at your kid’s side 24/7 and you do need to let them make their own choices. Teach them correct principles, and beyond that their choices are theirs – if they are going to let it happen, it’s going to happen.
I have tried to think about the fact that by the time they reach 16 they are only about 2 years from being on their own. Most kids that have had parents that clamped down harder at that point were just pushing on a spring that would be released once the parent wasn’t in the day to day activities. But at the same time, the maturity in the brain does not seem to really kick in until they start reaching 18 or maybe 25 for some!I wouldn’t say we clamped down harder, but I see what you’re saying and can see that happen. It was always clear in our house that dating was not to happen until 16 and then group dates were preferred, it wasn’t news. We did have a son argue about what constituted a date, and interestingly enough the other siblings side with the old folks on the issue – his idea of something that was not a date was clearly a date. I’m still not sure he’s convinced of that, but the date that he didn’t think was a date never happened anyway.
I see these things as “guardrails” in that they protect us from mistakes with serious consequences. The 16 yr rule is somewhat arbitrary but is designed to help prevent situations where temptation might occur.
My style would be to talk to the child about why a certain rule might exist and what my concerns are.
I would follow that up with flexibility. If there is a big social date event the day before my child’s 16th birthday I believe it would be unneccessary to prevent them form going. There is a standard and there can be exceptions to the standard. I would give emphasis that these “exceptions” to the rule are privlidges based upon responsible behavior and are extremely conditional. Perhaps we could work out alternate temporary safeguards for a particular “date” event that would put Mom & Dad at ease while still being able to have a good time. Perhaps going with a group, of having a set itinerary complete with contact info, or having the child check in periodically with texts, or even being a chaperone (or chofer), etc.
I especially love when my child comes to me with such a plan and asks me to bless it. I might come up with a stipulation or two but overall I am very impressed if they can find a way to get what they want while honoring our concerns as parents.
Roy wrote:I see these things as “guardrails” in that they protect us from mistakes with serious consequences.
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I would follow that up with flexibility. If there is a big social date event the day before my child’s 16th birthday I believe it would be unneccessary to prevent them form going. There is a standard and there can be exceptions to the standard…
Agree with Roy… Although I’m a proponent of waiting until 16 I really like these comments. When I was a teenager in a predominantly LDS city we constantly heard about the kids who turned 16 the week after prom or something and who didn’t go to prom. It was almost like waiting until 16 to date was like waiting until marriage to have sex. I’ve never agreed that the actual day of turning 16 suddenly made one date-able.
I personally was glad for the 16 minimum age limit because it gave me an excuse to not date. I was too scared of girls to ask them until almost 17.
One other aspect I don’t think has been brought up – Does anyone know to what extent the age of 16 is enforced or preached outside the US? During my limited travels and during my mission I haven’t heard much at all about it. In fact once in a Latin American country I asked about 16 year limit and the person I asked had never heard of it.
Roadrunner wrote:One other aspect I don’t think has been brought up – Does anyone know to what extent the age of 16 is enforced or preached outside the US? During my limited travels and during my mission I haven’t heard much at all about it. In fact once in a Latin American country I asked about 16 year limit and the person I asked had never heard of it.
I think that it is less emphasised than it was in the past, like prohibitions against drinking caffinated soda or playing with face cards. I imagine that other countries would emphasize it even less.
I had the following irreverant thoughts when reviewing SD’s link:
Quote:You should not date until you are at least 16 years old.
It states that one should not date until “at least” 16. Does that mean that one could be even more righteous by waiting longer? 18… 21…or 25? Do you want gross blessings or net blessings?
😈 Quote:Developing serious relationships too early in life can limit the number of other people you meet
I agree. An individual may be wise to delay marriage until they have a chance to mature, have varied life experiences, perhaps finish their schooling, and date lots and lots of different people.
:thumbup: I think 16 is actually really quite late to begin dating. In many parts of the world, people are married at this age – it’s not wise, but I have known a couple who did and were happily married years later. I think 13-15 year olds should be allowed to “date” but in controlled situations. At that age teenagers are already getting crushes and whatever, seems a bit much to let them suddenly get thrown in at the deep end.
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