- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Hi there. I’m not actually questioning the church or considering leaving…. But I could really use some insight from people who understand those in leadership positions in the church can and do sometimes make obviously wrong choices. So a little background. I’m married with two teens and one on the way. My family lives in a town of 2000 in a county of about 7000. The nearest stop light, other ward, stake center, etc. is 100 miles away over a pass that is closed any time there’s a good snow or forest fire. Our Ward plays by it’s own house rules and considers church guidelines, standards, and policies to be very general suggestions. As a small example, the local newspaper photographer is regularly invited to photograph events being held in the sacrament hall…such as piano recitals, the town Christmas pageant, local organization award ceremonies, etc. This kind of thing would be a very big no-no in any other ward I’ve ever lived in but I was actually laughed at when I asked, “isn’t that against the rules?” At the first event after moving to town.
The issue that is really getting us though- Our son is 15. He’s been raised in the church all his life and has always been very active with a strong personal testimony of the Gospel. The Young Men’s leadership in this ward is just one problem after another with him. The ward actively competes with stake events and discourages youth from attending stake events. Ds has been labeled as disloyal to the ward for regularly choosing stake events over ward ones. They are even making fun of him for attending youth conference instead of the huge service project/ BBQ they planned at the last minute after finding out he was registered to attend.Ds’s priesthood president/young men’s president has been increasing this kind of harassment slowly over the last few months to a year. He’s not just driven most of the other young men, but their families inactive. The only active young men are my son and one 12yr old. Frankly, the only thing that’s kept my son attending is a sense of responsibility for this boy. He can’t stand the idea of leaving him alone with the leader. The leader has become increasingly belligerent and verbally abusive toward the boys. My son in particular is his favorite target ( I imagine due to his overly trusting nature making him an easy one, and his being the only one that stands up to the man). Last night things escalated another level. There was a hike. This leader was the only adult. Some of the inactive boys and their friends attended. A couple of the boys started throwing rocks. Before long, it was five boys throwing rocks at three boys, who were all begging them to stop. The aggressors responded by telling them to relax and throwing more rocks. The leader was watching all this and has expressed he feels it’s all in fun. My son finally shoved the ringleader down and knocked the rocks out of his hands. While younger than most, he’s one of the largest in the town (about 6′ and growing fast) with an athletic build. The idea he might get violent back effectively halted the situation. He was reprimanded by the leader and even taking it to the bishop, the consensus is that ds is the only person who did anything wrong. They feel since there were no major injuries, the only problem was ds overreacting. Ds has some scrapes and bruises on his back and outer arms and one other boy has a small bruise on his face that I know of. If the boys had been using full strength they would be much worse. Honesty, I expect it all to be healed by the end of the day. My issue isn’t with a group of boys who got carried away under poor leadership. It’s with the leadership that feels verbal abuse, degrading treatment, and mild violence are appropriate and to be encouraged at youth activities.
I feel like we’re facing a choice between the church and this town, and even choosing the church we would be in no position to leave town. Last night the bishop twisted our newest request for help into accusations that we were trying to threaten him into action, and he would refuse to take action as a matter of principle. He had told us he was sure it was all no big deal and he was going to let it be and we should too. I pointed out that we’ve been dealing with escelatingly inappropriate behavior from the leader and we’d be taking it to the stake president if he still wasn’t willing to do anything about it. Every time this leader thinks he’s gotten away with something he takes it another step. What comes after this? That’s when he pulled the threatening line. Grrrr. Of course I wasn’t threatening. I was serious. I called the stake president. He at least seemed to take it seriously. This is the first issue we’ve brought to him, other than a passing comment about frustration over the ward’s competitive attitude with the stake, at a stake activity. We’re not the type to look for trouble or stir things up. If anything we tend to be kind of loaners because we so dislike getting drawn into other people’s drama. I think that is one of the things that makes this so hard. The bishop knows us well and is using that knowledge to undermine us and turn this into a huge thing. If he had just dealt with the situation, maybe by insisting on two-deep leadership, when we first brought it to him…. There wouldn’t be a drama! If I just turn a blind eye like everyone wants, how far will this leader take his behavior? And even if I keep my son home, what kind of abuse or injury will I be responsible for having enabled him to cause another child? Now that I’ve contacted the stake president, our family will not be welcome at church anymore. That’s just inexcusable behavior here. The stake is the ENEMY. It’s only a matter of time until I am released from my calling. I’ve seen it before with others driven into inactivity for such things. I hate it and I wish I could see a path other than the ones I see. Maybe one of you does?
I’m sorry to hear about that situation. When local leadership is dysfunctional, it can be very hard. Unfortunately, like Ray I can only offer my sympathy. I feel especially bad for your son. I do think you did the right thing in talking to the stake president and would encourage you to follow up. I can’t promise you a solution, however. Hi one voice. I should first preface before I say anything that this is a issue I had for a loony long time, over 20 years on are regular basis and more. As a result the one thing I have a non negotiable conviction in is bullying, manipulation, and people trying to established control of others or trying to get them to give them control willingly through various means. With that said I want you to understand that being passive and dismissive of there actions while they do it is the worst thing you can do, boundaries are not set and they will press harder and harder. This is classic bullying and manipulation behavior you described.
The first thing is know regardless of who you are interacting with or their authority you have basic human rights.
Learning what they are without letting others manipulate, rationalize or minimize their behavior or that you actually don’t have these rights(which is what they just did) and is again classic behavioral patterns.
With that in mind there are things you can do to take action in a positive way to change things. This is a very good article and it is true and heavily researched on the subject. With very good and proven advice.
Quote:How to Spot and Deal with Manipulative People
By Preston Ni, M.S.B.A. on June 1, 2014 – 6:15am
“There are those whose primary ability is to spin wheels of manipulation. It is their second skin and without these spinning wheels, they simply do not know how to function.”
― C. JoyBell C.
Psychological manipulation can be defined as the exercise of undue influence through mental distortion and emotional exploitation, with the intention to seize power, control, benefits and privileges at the victim’s expense.
It is important to distinguish healthy social influence from psychological manipulation. Healthy social influence occurs between most people, and is part of the give and take of constructive relationships. In psychological manipulation, one person is used for the benefit of another. The manipulator deliberately creates an imbalance of power, and exploits the victim to serve his or her agenda.
Most manipulative individuals have four common characteristics:
They know how to detect your weaknesses.
Once found, they use your weaknesses against you.
Through their shrewd machinations, they convince you to give up something of yourself, in order to serve their self-centered interests.
In work, social and family situations, once a manipulator succeeds in taking advantage of you, he or she will likely repeat the violation, until you put a stop to the exploitation.
Root causes for chronic manipulation are complex and deep-seated. Whatever the reasons that may drive an individual to be psychologically manipulative, it’s not easy when you’re on the receiving end of such unscrupulous aggression. How can one successfully manage these situations? Here are eight keys to handling manipulative people. Not all of the tips below may apply to your particular situation. Simply utilize what works and leave the rest.
For more in-depth tools on how to effectively handle difficult individuals, download free excerpts of my publications (click on titles) “How to Communicate Effectively and Handle Difficult People,” and “Communication Success with Four Personality Types,” “How to Successfully Handle Passive-Aggressive People.”
1. Know Your Fundamental Human Rights*
The single most important idea to keep in mind when you’re dealing with a psychologically manipulative person is to know your rights, and recognize when they’re being violated.
As long as you do not harm others, you have the right to stand-up for yourself and defend your rights. On the other hand, if you bring harm to others, you may forfeit these rights.
Here are the Fundamental Human Rights:
You have the right to be treated with respect.
You have the right to express your feelings, opinions and wants.
You have the right to set your own priorities.
You have the right to say “no” without feeling guilty.
You have the right to get what you pay for.
You have the right to have opinions different than others.
You have the right to take care of and protect yourself from being threatened physically, mentally or emotionally.
You have the right to create your own happy and healthy life.
These Fundamental Human Rights represent your boundaries.
Of course, our society is full of people who do not respect these rights. Psychological manipulators, in particular, want to deprive you of your rights so they can control and take advantage of you. However, you have the power and moral authority to declare that it is you, not the manipulator, who’s in charge of your life. The communication skills and strategies are outlined in the rest of this article.
2. Keep Your Distance
One of the helpful ways to detect a manipulator is to see how this person acts in front of different people and situations with different faces. While all of us have a degree of this type of social differentiation, some psychological manipulators tend to habitually dwell in extremes, being highly polite to one individual and completely rude to another, totally helpless one moment and fiercely aggressive the next. When you observe this type of behavior from an individual on a regular basis, keep a healthy distance, and avoid engaging with this person unless you absolutely have to. As mentioned earlier, reasons for chronic psychological manipulation are complex and deep-seated. It is not your job to change or save them. Keep a healthy distance.
3. Avoid Personalization and Self-Blame
Since the manipulator’s agenda is to look for and exploit your weaknesses, it is understandable that you may feel inadequate, or even blame yourself for not satisfying the manipulator. In these situations, it’s important to remember that the problem is not about you. You’re simply being manipulated to feel bad about yourself, so that you’re more likely to surrender your power and rights. Consider your relationship with the manipulator, and ask the following questions:
Am I being treated with genuine respect?
Are this person’s expectations & demands of me reasonable?
Is the giving in this relationship primarily one way or two ways?
Ultimately, do I feel good about myself in this relationship?
Your answers to these questions give you important clues about whether the “problem” in the relationship is with you, or the other person.
4. Put the Focus on Them by Asking Probing Questions
Inevitably, psychological manipulators will make requests (or demands) of you. These “offers” often make you go out of your way to meet their needs. When you hear an unreasonable solicitation, it’s sometimes very useful to put the focus back on the manipulator by asking a few probing questions, to see if she or he has enough self-awareness to recognize the inequity of their scheme. Ask, for example,
“Does this seem reasonable to you?”
“Does what you want from me sound fair?”
“What about me? Do I have a say in this?”
“Are you asking me or telling me?”
“So, what do I get out of this?”
“Are you really expecting me to (state the inequitable request)…?”
When you ask the above questions, you’re putting up a mirror, so the manipulator can see the true nature of his or her ploy. If the manipulator has a degree of self-awareness, he will likely withdraw the demand and back down.
On the other hand, truly pathological manipulators will dismiss your questions and insist on getting their way. If this occurs, apply the ideas from tips #5-#8 below to keep your power, and halt the manipulation.
5. Use Time to Your Advantage
In addition to the unreasonable requests, the manipulator will often also expect an answer from you right away, to maximize their pressure and control over you in the situation (sales people call this “closing the deal”). During these moments, instead of responding to the manipulator’s request right away, consider leveraging time to your advantage, and distancing yourself from the manipulator’s immediate influence. You can exercise leadership over the situation simply by saying:
“I’ll think about it.”
Consider how powerful these few words are from a customer to a salesperson, or from a romantic prospect to an eager pursuer, or from you to a manipulator. Take the time you need to evaluate the pros and cons of the situation, consider whether you want to negotiate a more equitable arrangement, or if you’re better off by saying “no,” which leads us to our next point:
6. Know How To Say “No” ― Diplomatically But Firmly
To be able to say “no” diplomatically but firmly is to practice the art of communication. Effectively articulated, it allows you to stand your ground while maintaining a workable relationship. Remember that your Fundamental Human Rights include the right to set your own priorities, the right to say “no” without feeling guilty, and the right to choose your own happy and healthy life. In “How to Successfully Handle Passive-Aggressive People,” I review seven different ways you can say “no,” to help lower resistance and keep the peace.
7. Confront Bullies (Safely)
A psychological manipulator is also a bully when he or she intimidates or harms another person.
The most important thing to keep in mind about bullies is that they pick on those whom they perceive as weaker, so as long as you remain passive and compliant, you make yourself a target. Many bullies are also cowards on the inside. When their victims begin to show backbone and stand up for their rights, the bully will often back down. This is true in schoolyards, as well as in domestic and office environments.
On an empathetic note, studies show that many bullies are victims of violence themselves. This in no way excuses bullying behavior, but may help you consider the bully in a more equanimous light.“
When people don’t like themselves very much, they have to make up for it. The classic bully was actually a victim first.” — Tom Hiddleston
“Some people try to be tall by cutting off the heads of others.” — Paramhansa Yogananda
“I realized that bullying never has to do with you. It’s the bully who’s insecure.” — Shay Mitchell
When confronting bullies, be sure to place yourself in a position where you can safely protect yourself, whether it’s standing tall on your own, having other people present to witness and support, or keeping a paper trail of the bully’s inappropriate behavior. In cases of physical, verbal, or emotional abuse, consult with counseling, legal, law enforcement, or administrative professionals on the matter. It’s very important to stand up to bullies, and you don’t have to do it alone.
8. Set Consequence
When a psychological manipulator insists on violating your boundaries, and won’t take “no” for an answer, deploy consequence.
The ability to identify and assert consequence(s) is one of the most important skills you can use to “stand down” a difficult person. Effectively articulated, consequence gives pause to the manipulative individual, and compels her or him to shift from violation to respect. In “How to Successfully Handle Passive-Aggressive People,” consequence is presented as seven different types of power you can utilize to affect positive change.
In conclusion, to know how to handle manipulative people is to truly master the art of communication. As you utilize these skills, you may experience less grief, greater confidence, better relationships, and higher communication prowess. You are on your way to leadership success!
© 2014 by Preston C. Ni. All rights reserved worldwide.
__________________________________________________________________________________
*The Fundamental Human Rights are grounded in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, laws in many democratic nations protecting against abuse, exploitation, and fraud, and, if you’re in the United States, the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.
References
Aglietta, M.; Reberioux, A.; Babiak, P. “Psychopathic Manipulation at Work”, in Gacono, C.B. (Ed), The Clinical and Forensic Assessment of Psychopathy: A Practitioner’s Guide, Erlbaum, Mahwah, NJ. (2000)
Bursten, Ben. “The Manipulative Personality”. Archives of General Psychiatry, Vol 26 No 4. (1972)
Buss DM, Gomes M, Higgins DS, Lauterback K. “Tactics of Manipulation”. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 52 No 6 (1987)
Carr-Ruffino, Norma. “The Promotable Woman”. Career Pr Inc; 4 ed. (2004)
Goldsmith, R.E.; Freyd, J. (2005). “Effects of Emotional Abuse in Family and Work Environments”. Journal of Emotional Abuse 5 (2005)
Moore, Thomas Geoffrey; Marie-France Hirigoyen; Helen Marx. “Stalking the Soul: Emotional Abuse and the Erosion of Identity”. New York: Turtle Point Press. (2004)
“The Universal Declaration of Human Rights” (UDHR). United Nations General Assembly (1948)
_________________________________________________________________________________
If it doesn’t work remove yourself and file a report with the local police station. It has to be done to protect yourself and your son. Please do not take it lightly or dismiss it by letting it happen. It will continue to happen to others as well.
Ray said it — when local leadership is dysfunctional, everyone suffers. We have a situation with a bad bishop. His performance is in the numbers — sacrament meeting attendance of 110 before he took over is now down to 40. Yet the Stake does nothing. When it was first brought to their attention, this led to a “support your local leaders’ speech from the member of the SP who received the complaint — and this SP member was our past Bishop who knew the Ward and its members very well.
In your situation — my objective would be to do what is necessary to keep your son’s testimony intact. If that means attending stake activities only, and attending church only, but not YM’s activities, so be it. See if there is a Scout troop in a neighboring town, and get involved in that instead of YM’s. I am only brainstorming — these suggestions may not be practical, but I feel for you.
The unusual thing here is that I was actually getting goosebumps reading about your Ward’s disregard for what I feel are some of the silly rules of the church — until I read about the abusive behavior of the YM leader.
one voice, I’m sorry for your situation in church. I’m not sure what I would do. I always thought that Church should be a shelter from experiences like this.
Keep us posted. Welcome.
I feel bad for what you’re going through. I think you were correct in insisting on two-deep leadership, in fact I wouldn’t let my kid go on any more church activities unless that requirement was met. Given the circumstances I’d likely accompany my kid on all activities regardless of two-deep leadership.
I just found this forum and your post made me want to create an account and log in just to respond. I’ve worried and fretted over my own children and the way they were shunted aside and underfed (spiritually) in favour of other girls in the ward. Here are some of the thoughts that came to me while reading your post:
The picture you painted is one-sided. It has to be since it came from only one source. I would suggest that you make a concerted effort to review the situation through the eyes of the others involved just to see if you might be misreading things. You will probably find that your assessment was spot on, but you need to have done this step thoroughly before you allow yourself to take an assertive position. You will be asked almost immediately to see things from “their” point of view and you will be able to honestly reply that you have done so.
You need to realize that you need to be willing to go to great lengths to address injustice. I was reluctant to step in (when it was my daughters) because I felt guilty taking the role of the overprotective parent. Eventually I realized that I would have been more proactive, more adamant in advocating for a stranger’s child than I had been for my own.
You’ve already contacted the Stake President. It has already been suggested that you accompany your son in all those YM activities. The next step is to contact Salt Lake City. You will be directed back to the Stake Pres but this time he will be far more interested in a resolution. He will counsel with your Bishop (who will give an equally one sided account that contradicts yours). Then they will counsel with you. You will feel as though they are trying to get you to back down, to admit that things aren’t as you described but you will be mistaken. The Stake Pres isn’t trying to get you to change your story. He’s trying to see if your story holds up.
Once you have the right people actively engaged things will improve. If they don’t or if ‘the right people’ never do get involved I would take (this time around, unlike my more passive stance years ago with my own kids) some dramatic steps. I’d make sure your son had a smart phone on him at all times and was adept at recording. If the YM leader that is the crux of this whole issue actually does escalate, at the very first provable instance of him being physically or verbally abusive I would take my recording and use it to obtain a restraining order. There is no doubt in my mind that I would, at that point, get the right people involved.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.