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The “Why people leave” presentation was originally a powerpoint slide show that John used to host at his original Mormon Stories site, and on youtube. I think that one is available again on youtube. It wasn’t one of the pieces that we ever hosted here at this site. It’s a good presentation. Here’s a link to the youtube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQJc5SxnVs My mistake Tom. I have it downloaded with my other articles/podcasts in my StayLDS file. I’m not sure where I found it originally – thought it was this site, but my mistake. Maybe it SHOULD be part of the StayLDS homepage Brian?
So, podcast only after all. No written form. Yeah, I was thinking of the powerpoint – but I only have it in the podcast form. I did find the utube link on the staylds home page. It is sooo good and have listened to it 4 times now and taken notes. My husband is listening to it right now in fact. I sent the link with a good message to my former bishops and my present bishops wife and to my brother, sister and sister in law and out lds friends. It will be interesting to see feedback. One of my old bishops already emailed me and said it was very good and could help him with an inactive he home teaches. I also write John Dehlin an email saying: John,
I can’t tell you enough how grateful I am for what you have done in starting Staylds.com and the Utube Presentation of “Why People leave the Church.” I am going through so much spiritual warfare with my family, ward, and lds friends right now. Being able to send the link to the Utube presentation to them has been a godsend. I watched it 3 times and cried my eyes out at the loving way you expressed how members should treat those who have gone through this crisis. The way you expressed what we are going through was so wonderful and made me feel like ‘finally, some one understands me.” I recently got some scathing letters and talking to by lds family members because I left the church. I posted about it on Staylds.com. and the forum there has been so helpful to me. I have felt like a abuse victim and then told it was my fault.
SO Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your inspiration.
Sincerely, Bridget Night
I would simply ignore the letter. I don’t believe the statement that all reasoning that causes us to leave the Church is “after the fact” –that it’s because we sinned and therefore have to rationalize our beliefs to relieve the tension. My personal life has been pretty clean all these years, and its been in the pursuit of living the gospel that I’ve run into the problems. If I was less zealous about it, I wouldn’t have had the trials of faith I have had — all of which were prompted while living the gospel the way we are supposed to. Also, as someone said in another thread I started, a lot of trials of faith happen when people start reading, praying and doing those things the Church teaches to preserve spirituality. Often those things are what causes them to doubt and leaves them with faith issues — not sin.
Personally, I feel the GA’s and members have a pat answer for every person who says they want to leave a Church or not obey a commandment. And its ALWAYS the fault of the person leaving — never the Church, never some of the unbelievable doctrine — it always comes back to some failing on the part of the individual. And I think that’s wrong.
So, that’s how I would frame up your sister-in-law’s letter and then toss it somewhere I wouldn’t be tempted to read it again.
Personally, I don’t think she’s building any bridges, or any Bridgets for that matter (couldn’t resist the word play). She would have been better off to simply retain the love part and keep the channels of communication open. I think this is the best thing if you run into someone who is disaffected — at least that way you might have SOME influence. But to go all judgmental like she has, only hurts trust and tends to close the lines of communication.
So, your challenge, I think is to forgive her and yet still participate in family activities, and to keep healthy, mutually respectful lines of communication open about issues other than religion. I would put a hedge around the subject of religion. If anyone ever asks me what I think of Joseph Smith, I would focus only on the positive — my answer. He was obviously a brilliant man who wrote a lot of inspired things. “Men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause…..” and other passages he penned under inspiration — I might refer to. I would focus on the answers he gave the world about why we are here, and where we are going, as well as how the religion he started has caused so many people to live good lives.
That’s my take on it….
Thank you Silent Dawning. I so agree with you. It hurt me alot and my hope would be that she would apologize after she sees the John Dehlin video, but I will not hold my breath. It is hard though because we were so close in the past. But, the dig about how dissappointed my dad would be was below the belt. She did all the things John Dehlin said not to do. They have this idealized picture of JS and the church and I hope the video opens their eyes. And you are also right about how living the gospel actually can bring out the crisis of faith. My husband fasted, prayed and read the book of Mormon for over 30 years and never got Moroni’s promise answered. My teaching gospel doctrine 4 years I learned about church history well and was shocked. Going to the temple brought on another crisis of shock. I really think most people want to believe so bad they rationalize it away. Which is what my sister in law said I did to leave the church. To say I gave in and took the easy way out was such an insult. My world fell apart and it felt like a horrible divorce. I am sure she just thought a strong warning and threat of damnation would bring me back. That rarely works for anyone. It just hurts worse coming from family. Well, I heard back from my sister in law and she said she had read the stuff I sent her and watched the video but did not want to argue back and forth about it. That she did not mean to give me a low blow about my dad but she felt he would have been deeply sad and concerned for me. Then she offers to send me some stuff that might help me see the light. No acknowledgment of my pain and feeling about the crisis of faith I was having. No trying to understand or say she could understand why those thing could upset me. I feel like I have been punished for having doubts and asking questions. It feels abusive like the woman that was raped and then she is the one being integrated (like did you dress seductively, or were in the wrong place etc.). My brother tried to call me twice but I could not even pick up the phone because I would have cried and gotten too emotional. Is their faith so fragile that they have to beat me up for it? Anyway, been down alot tonight.
bridget_night wrote:Well, I heard back from my sister in law and she said she had read the stuff I sent her and watched the video but did not want to argue back and forth about it. That she did not mean to give me a low blow about my dad but she felt he would have been deeply sad and concerned for me. Then she offers to send me some stuff that might help me see the light. No acknowledgment of my pain and feeling about the crisis of faith I was having. No trying to understand or say she could understand why those thing could upset me. I feel like I have been punished for having doubts and asking questions. It feels abusive like the woman that was raped and then she is the one being integrated (like did you dress seductively, or were in the wrong place etc.). My brother tried to call me twice but I could not even pick up the phone because I would have cried and gotten too emotional. Is their faith so fragile that they have to beat me up for it?
Anyway, been down alot tonight.
It’s ironic that when you come back with your own thinking on the matter (in this case, the John Dehlin video) they say “I don’t want to argue about it”, but they still want to send you their own materials. How very one-sided.
Personally, I think it’s time you took charge and told them you want to leave the subject of religion alone for a while. Affirm their value to you as family members, express love, but tell them you think its best if you left the subject alone. As it stands, they seem to be having their way with this subject, and I don’t think it’s helping your inner peace any.
Thanks Silent Dawning. I think you are right. Finally got some sleep and right thinking and feeling better.
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