Death and temple ordinances

[Anonymous]

Please correct my thinking where it’s flawed.

This has been on my mind a little lately:

We are taught that when we die we are in a holding place of sorts.

I understand that we will remain there until judgement (this is where I am a little fuzzy with the details, and if this part is wrong, then the rest of what I’m about to type is moot).

If we do remain there until judgement, then why is there such a pressing need for temple ordinances?

I mean, we hear things like, “Your ancestors have been waiting a long time.”

What are they waiting for?

What can they now do with a baptism or endowment that they couldn’t do before in spirit prison/paradise?

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

QA, speaking strictly in terms of LDS Theology, not of my own beliefs:

The Spirit World is a realm of the dead prior to The Judgment. It is loosely divided into Prison and Paradise. Even when I was a faithful, believing member of the Church, I thought of the distinction as figurative, not literal. In other words, some are in a prison state, what you referred to as “holding place”, and others are in a state of alignment with God. Those in a paradisaical state continue to labor for the plan of God, while those in a prison state are in a sort of figurative darkness. In other words, just like here, there are people who are going places (spiritually) and people who are not. My view back then was that vicarious temple work was necessary to move fully from one state to another, even if the person had come to a knowledge of God’s plan and wanted to join with it.

Quote:

In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise. — Gospel Principles (published by the Church and available at lds.org) Chapter 41

Interestingly, and I think this is a unique LDS view, some who have died have already been resurrected, having a sort of preliminary judgment. These go on to perform certain assignments from God. Examples include Jesus, Moroni, who JS said was a resurrected being, JohntheBaptist, Peter, and James, who had to have been resurrected in order to lay hands on JS and OC.

Quote:

D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

What is interesting in the above passage is that these “beings” conform to our understanding of “Paradise” but they are said to be “in heaven”. Yet, heaven, doesn’t exist as a separate and distinct realm in LDS theology. This is part of what drives many LDS faithful to think of the afterlife as having spiritual rather than physical divisions between God’s children.

To further complicate our view of the Spirit World, there are also beings who have been taken up into Paradise before dying: Enoch and his neighbors, Moses, and Elijah, and still others who continue to live on the earth, but seem to be able to move between realms as needed: John and the three Nephites.

The best description we have in the Scriptures about all this is D&C 138, which is one of only three sections of the D&C not produced during JS’s lifetime.

If I may offer one point of commentary. We often decry LDS Black & White thinking. But the layers upon layers view of the afterlife that JS taught, and which we still teach today, is a much different vision of what is to come than the very B&W Heaven and Hell that other Christian denominations accept. In LDS theology, EVERYONE on earth is eligible for salvation, whether they accepted Jesus in this life or not. In Mormonism, God is even more patient and forgiving than He is elsewhere. And nearly all of us will go on to glory. The only beings who are actually punished are those who deliberately turn against God and work to thwart his plan.

[Anonymous]

QuestionAbound wrote:

If we do remain there until judgement, then why is there such a pressing need for temple ordinances?

I mean, we hear things like, “Your ancestors have been waiting a long time.”

What are they waiting for?

What can they now do with a baptism or endowment that they couldn’t do before in spirit prison/paradise?

I don’t think you are wrong in your thinking. I think these are logical and intelligent thoughts in reaction to someone else trying to create an urgency out of temple work.

It doesn’t make sense to me either. As OON mentions, paradise and prison is a state of mind based on the qualities we take with us in the next life.

So those who are “waiting for their work to be done” I would think are in paradise and happy. I see no urgency to the ordinance work. If it will be done in the eternities, it will be done.

I don’t see them sitting around in burning hell waiting for temple work to take them to a pleasant cloud family vacation.

Perhaps the one doctrinal point you could study more if you wanted to was the order of the resurrection and the work that we do in the spirit world. Does it seem that those that have the temple work done for them will be resurrected at a different stage than others and be allowed to participate in things like the millennium or temple work or some privilege like that. I think it is all speculative, but that could be why some people feel urgency to get their family work done.

Something tells me it is kind of a carrot and stick used in the church to get us up and to the temple…more about us than those in the spirit world. We often package things in hyperbole to inspire and motivate…even if the doctrine is a little illogical when time has no meaning in the eternities.

[Anonymous]

I see it all as symbolic – and I love what I see in the symbolism.

I don’t try to understand it literally. It loses its power and beauty when it is seen literally.

[Anonymous]

If the endowment truly is necessary for our salvation I often think that it would be much more beneficial for people to resurrect during the millennium, set an appointment with one of the many temples, and receive the endowment themselves – a firsthand experience. We often present the endowment as a learning opportunity, something we attend over and over again so we can gain additional light and knowledge. I’d rather my family members get to have that experience themselves, let them learn what they will.

So why all the temple work? Doing vicarious work gives us a pretext to go back to the temple. Some people would be really bummed out if going to the temple was a once-and-you’re-done experience. I believe it is also more for us than our deceased relatives. Wherever they are, they’re taken care of but we want that assurance that they are taken care of so we go the extra mile. It’s an action that shows faith. For people that have faith that these are saving ordinances and that most of their deceased family members haven’t received them, sacrificing those hours is a way of expressing love.

Paradise vs. prison. It’s all a state of mind. One man’s heaven is another man’s hell.

Heber13 wrote:

Perhaps the one doctrinal point you could study more if you wanted to was the order of the resurrection and the work that we do in the spirit world. Does it seem that those that have the temple work done for them will be resurrected at a different stage than others and be allowed to participate in things like the millennium or temple work or some privilege like that. I think it is all speculative, but that could be why some people feel urgency to get their family work done.

This is probably a sidebar but in my orthodox days I spent a lot of time worrying about whether I’d be resurrected on the morning of the first resurrection (will I make it to the CK?). Now I find myself wondering how the timing of our resurrection jives with the parable of the workers in the vineyard. I suppose the key difference is that by then we’ve already transitioned to the reward phase. We aren’t being asked to work, we’re being “paid” as it were.

I also find myself wondering, how long would I want to do sessions at the temple? 1000 years? 100? Maybe go a few times and say, “I’m good.” One man’s heaven… perhaps resurrecting two minutes to midnight during the millennium, like a slothful servant, isn’t the worst thing that can happen. There’s got to be something compelling about the millennium that isn’t doing temple work. It would be super nice to help immediate family members through the process but I’d rather give my grandparents the opportunity to help their grandparents because after you go so far back I’m not going to feel much of a connection, at least not as much as my ancestor’s immediate family would. Let them have their moment, I’ll move on to something else, cut down on the crowd.

Someone might coax me out of the grave a little earlier than I’d otherwise be inclined if we put in a little effort to make sure we had a kick @$$ water park somewhere on Pangaea. And it’s going to have to be a lot better than Seven Peaks in Provo.

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