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There is an overwhelming cultural theme, at least here in Utah, about our ability to ‘keep’ someone here aka ‘alive’, simply by our wishes or desires. I hear it all the time. “We just can’t figure out why grandpa can’t ‘go’; there must be a reason he is staying.” “Our sister is keeping Dad here, because she’s not ready to let him go.” Or conversely, “Mom, it’s okay to go; we give you permission!” Where did this idea that our mere wishing to have control over life and death make it so? I can’t think of any doctrine that spells it out. Sometimes I even hear of Priesthood blessing that ‘permit’ someone to pass on. To me, people hang on, because poorly understood biological processes have not run their course. I do not find it comforting to have to assign a cosmic reason to everything that happens. In fact, for me, just the opposite is so.
I have often thought that the ban on cremation undermines the power of God to resurrect. The reasons I have heard over the years generally have something to do with respect for the body (which I can understand), or making it easier for God to bring a person forth in the resurrection..
So, what other myths/practices surrounding death do you see in our culture? Are they useful? Are some practices based in doctrine? What are the motivations behind them?
It’s ironic to me that so many of us fail to observe the true influence we can have on death by using our agency to exercise, practice healthy eating and portion control, avoid destructive habits, manage stress, and find serenity and peace through our faith. It is also ironic to me that so many ‘faithful’ really fall apart when death approaches, when, according to our teachings, their faith should make them strong.
I have heard no such myths. The only discussion centers on the role of priesthood blessings in keeping people alive. However, I have seen “local doctrine” creep into certain Wards. If a respected, spiritual person espouses an intelligent or compelling thought, then many others start repeating the idea. It then becomes like an eternal principle.
We had one such person who believed that it’s easy to receive revelation about how to help people. It’s a lot harder to receive it for yourself (as guidance in your own life). My first 6 years in the Church, I believed that wholeheartedly. Then I moved and never heard it again.
I agree with you on being more comforted by the idea that I have the ability to reap the benefits of my own actions. To me the role of prayer and revelation has more to do with clearing my mind to receive wisdom in what to do, than to invoke divine power to accomplish the task for me. The proper request is “talk me down” while too often we want to say “take the controls and land this thing.” Which one is more likely to help us progress? The idea that anyone can interfere with another’s ability to leave this life sounds like pure superstition to me. I know of no doctrinal base.
One of the other things that gets me is the funny thing that people say in funerals. My wife has a cousin who was killed by a ricochet in a hunting accident. At the funeral , speakers said that he knew was going to die and was preparing for it. There was really no basis for what they said; it was just a terrible accident. I guess it really helps people to think that they are part of a grand plan and there is purpose behind everything that happens. The more I ponder it though, I don’t like the idea of a vindictive God who plays and meddles with our lives. To me, it’s easier to think of it as a simple accident.
Another myth I wonder about is when I hear people say that a little child was so righteous, they were taken from this world without needing to be tested. I like to think of the little child as a sweet angel in heaven, but putting the meaning or explanation to the timing of the death does not make sense to me. I think sometimes we try to create stories to help us feel better about things. Sometimes it works and is sacred to us, and sometimes the stories if shared to others just don’t seem to hold true.
There is a pamphlet by Spencer W Kimball called “ Death, Tragedy or Destiny?”. He implies that in some cases, people are “appointed unto death”. Also, Ezra Taft Benson in his book Come Unto Christdescribes a woman who knew she was going to die, made all the arrangements, and then passed on. He cited her as an example of being spiritually in tune. To me, it seems possible that God requests people to leave their bodies and return to him for some purpose, but I wouldn’t necessarily believe all the speculation and reason-finding that people around the deceased person often resort to. I think many times they do it in order to bring meaning and order to the experience.
A huge example of invented ideas about death is Spiritualism that was popular in the time of Arthur Conan Doyle. These people believed you could see or have communiion with dead people. The camera was new at that time and people claimed to have taken pictures of their dead loved ones. One of my colleagues indicated that he felt this was a result of the war. People missed their loved ones and wanted to see them again, so they convinced themselves they were communing with the dead. I think people in the Church invent these death myths for a similar purpose — to bring some sense to death for that specific person.
What do you make of these:
Quote:D&C 42:48And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed.
Quote:D&C 121:24Behold, mine eyes see and know all their works, and I have in reserve a swift judgment in the season thereof, for them all;
25For there is a time appointed for every man, according as his works shall be.
Perhaps the two goofiest death myths to me is the one Heber mentioned about little kids and handicap folks who die young are the valiant spirits who did not need to be tested. Also in relationship to that is the myth that aborted fetuses go directly to heaven because they got screwed out of their chance to have an earthy experience. I heard this one again just recently from the pulpit – something about how 300 million aborted spirits were ushered into heaven this year because of murderous abortions had taken place, and how awful it was that they did not get their chance on earth. The other myth/tradition that always makes me wonder is the whole need to bury the dead in their temple clothing. Why? Sure, I guess it might be nice for the LIVING and give them some comfort, but obviously there is no logical reason for doing so on behalf of the dead person. I suppose some members might say that the clothing will be “resurrected” right along with the body. Yeah.
Quote:There is an overwhelming cultural theme, at least here in Utah, about our ability to ‘keep’ someone here aka ‘alive’, simply by our wishes or desires. I hear it all the time. “We just can’t figure out why grandpa can’t ‘go’; there must be a reason he is staying.” “Our sister is keeping Dad here, because she’s not ready to let him go.” Or conversely, “Mom, it’s okay to go; we give you permission!” Dad just died last July, a lot of this happened with my sisters and mom. I am quite stoic about death, when they would say things to me like this I would try not to laugh. How about this one, “God has a special need for him/her “on the other side” or if the death was a young person, “He/she was just too good for this world” Okay, what ever!
f4h1
cwald wrote:The other myth/tradition that always makes me wonder is the whole need to bury the dead in their temple clothing. Why? Sure, I guess it might be nice for the LIVING and give them some comfort, but obviously there is no logical reason for doing so on behalf of the dead person. I suppose some members might say that the clothing will be “resurrected” right along with the body. Yeah.
Or that cremation is disrespectful, but being marinated in embalming fluid is not.cwald wrote:The other myth/tradition that always makes me wonder is the whole need to bury the dead in their temple clothing. I suppose some members might say that the clothing will be “resurrected” right along with the body. Yeah.
and that all the others will be naked! is what I heard.
f4h1
Quote:and that all the others will be naked! is what I heard.
I hope that’s a joke, but I fear it isn’t.
🙄 Old-Timer wrote:Quote:and that all the others will be naked! is what I heard.
I hope that’s a joke, but I fear it isn’t.
🙄 No worries, Ray. By then we will only have godly type thoughts so seeing them all naked won’t bother us in the least.
🙂 In fact, we will probably wonder why the rest of us are clothed!
Awesome posts everyone. I for one have a big dent on my head from the cap in a temple session after just one hour! So, eternity is pretty much going to cut me in half with the thing (xxxxl head size).
If you read “The World Without Us” you find out how toxic embalming fluid is, and how invasive the whole process is. Pine box for me. Put me on ice. Then have me completely decompose and give back to the earth. Better than toxic soup in a concrete tank and a big expensive coffin. Oh yeah, but the mortuary lobby makes the pine box illegal in most places.
I also want the same epitaph as Stonewall Jackson, who was killed by friendly fire: “Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the trees.”
silentstruggle wrote:To me, people hang on, because poorly understood biological processes have not run their course. I do not find it comforting to have to assign a cosmic reason to everything that happens. In fact, for me, just the opposite is so.
And one of those most poorly understood biological processes that keeps us alive happens in the brain and from there branches out to every cell in our body, where the “will to live” keeps us alive every day, day after day.
So the conscious or unconscious knowledge that people we form psychological attachments to, that those people need us and will come to harm if we “depart,” that idea keeps people from departing. The “will to live” is often a very powerful biologically-expressed factor in the continuation of homeostasis.
It doesn’t have to be magic for it still to be that way.
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