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cwald wrote:
That is a long post with a lot of big words.
The middle way is messy with a lot chaos and moral dilemmas and nuisances and clutter that must be ignored throughtout the day.
That simply cannot be tolerated.
Oh I admire those who can find the path. I tred it some days…but my damn genes bring back. Some people will just have to accept it.
“No more scientist. No more doctors. Perhaps going on all fours is better anyway?”
Sorry — it was a bit verbose…But the simple version is that dualistic thinking is evolutionarily inferior to inclusive thinking. We obviously cannot change our genetics over night, but our survival depends upon transforming to a more inclusive society. Our population denisity in the face of scarcity demand it.
As well, we all have our days. I go through about one day a week where I am a total basket case. can’t work, think, or operate, and I feel burdened by the idea that this path is so isolated and difficult at times. We WERE happier — or so we thought — when everything was laid out for us. But what was the reality? I mean really? we were constantly being wracked by guilt for not doing enough, and when the occasional lapse against the myriad rules of the church occurred, we were awful sinners. It’s a poopy-butted way to live.
But some intro somewhere I read today told of a guy who would commit suicide if he lost his beliefs. ack! is that the way things should be?
You know I don’t believe in the least — not in any traditional sense, and I don’t feel the least regret for that. Yet I can appreciate a good spiritual event where we can enjoy the myths and the good feelings they inspire. How is that messy?
Orson wrote:I flashed back to early in my marriage and days of similar thoughts, though likely not as intense. I came to realize
I ultimately had a choice, I could… But isn’t that the heart of the matter? SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE.
It’s an orientation….and just because it would be convenient or make family happy, or one wishes it to be so…doesn’t mean they can just choose to change orientation.
No. Some cannot.
God how I would love to find a way to staylds. It just isn’t happening. I don’t think it is choice any longer. I blame god…biology…and perhaps that is the only pathway to find peace. Accept one’s orientation for what it is. Accept it. Use it. Find peace in it…and make our weaknesses become strengths. (I learned that from the mormon church.
“make our weaknesses become strengths. (I learned that one in the Mormon Church)” cwald – Have you been lookin’ at the Book of Mormon, again?
I’ve seen this in my family. cwald wrote:it’s an orientation….and just because it would be convenient or make family happy, or one wishes it to be so…doesn’t mean they can just choose to change orientation.
Some of my children have been diagnosed with something called sensory processing disorder (SPD). They have a hard time processing when things are too loud or crowded or messy.
For example, if our house is too cluttered my 3 year old becomes extra destructive. He’ll tear up books, pull down curtains, break small appliances… Some people might think I need to discipline him more or there’s something wrong with my parenting. I also could spend my time wishing he was different and didn’t have these SPD challenges. This isn’t something he chooses to do.
One of the blessings of the SPD diagnosis is that I can better understand how he’s wired and respond accordingly. I realize that he’s acting out because the house is too cluttered. If I keep things a little neater, his destructive tendencies go away and I can redirect him to more peaceful activities.
My job as a parent is to help him be his best self with the biological wiring he already has, not to force him to be a different person. As I do this I realize I need to do the same with myself. My focus should be in letting the atonement make me my best self. I work with the biological wiring I already have to mitigate the bad and enhance the good.
Earl Parsons wrote:My job as a parent is to help him be his best self with the biological wiring he already has, not to force him to be a different person. As I do this I realize I need to do the same with myself. My focus should be in letting the atonement make me my best self. I work with the biological wiring I already have to mitigate the bad and enhance the good.
Thank you for this. It means alot to me. DW was in tears because the PP cornered her with the question, “What are we going to do about (little Roy)?”
When my wife relayed this to me I responded, “Love him, next question.” Sure it is easier for me to say that to my wife than she may find it to say the same thing to the Primary President, but it is no less true.
cwald wrote:But isn’t that the heart of the matter? SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE.
It’s an orientation….and just because it would be convenient or make family happy, or one wishes it to be so…doesn’t mean they can just choose to change orientation.
I hear what you’re saying. I think we’re talking about different sides of the same coin. I agree that we cannot choose to be a different person with different traits, personalities, orientations, etc. The choice that we have is how we play the hand we were dealt. I agree that options I personally find that work for me may not work for someone else, your post simply helped me see a couple things about my own personality from a new perspective.
As far as the clean house situation — I realized if I was completely and wholly incompatible with a moderately chaotic home my marriage would end in divorce. Just as one orientation can be incompatible with “messiness” my dear young wife’s orientation did not grasp some of the finer skills of organization and cleanliness. I realized she did not have the choice or ability to change that part of her makeup. Thus it fell to me, and I realized that
Ihad the choice to make. I knew that I could learn to adjust, even if it wouldn’t be easy. It is true that some relationships are incompatible. Some people in church don’t have the choice to be different than they are, they cannot choose a worldview that we may find more compatible or tolerable. When we have an irreconcilable clash there may not be much we can do about it. That’s what this process is all about, to see if we are able to find a way that can work. It doesn’t always happen. So, as we can see you are right again. Thanks for that!
Orson wrote:So, as we can see you are right again. Thanks for that!
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that on stayLDS, I would have…well…maybe ten cents.
🙂 cwald wrote:But isn’t that the heart of the matter? SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO CHOICE.
It’s an orientation….and just because it would be convenient or make family happy, or one wishes it to be so…doesn’t mean they can just choose to change orientation.
No. Some cannot.
In a grief group DW and I attended, there was a handout from some psychologists titled something like “Positive/affirmative choices to be made along the grief process.” Essentially there are these things called stages of grief. Generally people grieve in different ways but they tend to go through these stages that have been described. Well, there are also some choices that the individual can make to help lessen the worst parts of the process. These choices are things like “don’t shut out others,” “find someone you can talk to,” and “do something that you will enjoy (like a bubble bath or a cup of hot chocolate).”
I believe that the combination of one’s personality/truth orientation and the experiences that they have may make it a given that they will transition from one stage of faith to another. Perhaps the only choices they have are what they do while in that transition. Cwald, from what I know of your journey you may have done all you could do to help alleviate the most painful parts of the process. I believe that you are generally at peace with yourself and others, harboring no ill will towards those in your branch, the institutional church generally, or even those family members that acted badly. I believe that to be an accomplishment worthy of recognition.
:thumbup: thanks Roy. It is my goal, my mission of life, to do exactly what you stated. I have good days…and…sometimes bad days.
I hope I have more good days than bad days…and I give the support of folk from this site a lot credit when that happens.
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