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If God doesn’t see fit to correct the sexist assumptions of His prophets, with whom He presumably communicates on a regular basis, then doesn’t He share some of the blame? He has never, in 180+ years of direct revelation, insisted that His wife get Her fair share of praise and gratitude for Her role in the creation. Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision! We wouldn’t have to keep Her in the shadows since She would have been a vital part of our doctrine from day one.
Joni wrote:If God doesn’t see fit to correct the sexist assumptions of His prophets, with whom He presumably communicates on a regular basis, then doesn’t He share some of the blame? He has never, in 180+ years of direct revelation, insisted that His wife get Her fair share of praise and gratitude for Her role in the creation.
Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision! We wouldn’t have to keep Her in the shadows since She would have been a vital part of our doctrine from day one.
I spent several years being mad at God. Then I realized it wasn’t God who led me to believe what I believed about God, it was people (actually “the church” at first). God doesn’t talk to Pres. Monson any more than he does anyone else, and God doesn’t really talk to him at all – he gets “revelation” the same way everybody else does. It’s all in the dark glass/dim mirror.
DarkJedi wrote:I spent several years being mad at God. Then I realized it wasn’t God who led me to believe what I believed about God, it was people (actually “the church” at first). God doesn’t talk to Pres. Monson any more than he does anyone else, and God doesn’t really talk to him at all – he gets “revelation” the same way everybody else does. It’s all in the dark glass/dim mirror.
Similarly, I realized just last week that I’m acting in a way inconsistent with what I believe when I get upset at the
seersfor not having seen. That realization has taken the edge off, but I still get a little peeved. I’m still working on not being angry with God. It would be easier if I had a concrete idea in mind of a being I should work on forgiving. Should I transfer the anger to the men responsible for teaching me about God and then forgive them instead?
Reuben wrote:
I’m still working on not being angry with God. It would be easier if I had a concrete idea in mind of a being I should work on forgiving. Should I transfer the anger to the men responsible for teaching me about God and then forgive them instead?That sounds like a great idea. I have found power in forgiveness, it helps bring me closer to understanding what God may think/feel. The way I see it humans find it difficult to forgive someone that doesn’t deserve it, but not God. Forgiveness then becomes the act of throwing off the shackles of the natural man, it can be very empowering and spiritually energizing. This is how we become more like God. When we get a taste of divine love it keeps us coming back for more.
I wonder if you could expound on your anger toward God. What are the assumptions that frame it? Who is God? What did he do or not do?
Reuben wrote:DarkJedi wrote:I spent several years being mad at God. Then I realized it wasn’t God who led me to believe what I believed about God, it was people (actually “the church” at first). God doesn’t talk to Pres. Monson any more than he does anyone else, and God doesn’t really talk to him at all – he gets “revelation” the same way everybody else does. It’s all in the dark glass/dim mirror.
Similarly, I realized just last week that I’m acting in a way inconsistent with what I believe when I get upset at the
seersfor not having seen. That realization has taken the edge off, but I still get a little peeved. I’m still working on not being angry with God. It would be easier if I had a concrete idea in mind of a being I should work on forgiving. Should I transfer the anger to the men responsible for teaching me about God and then forgive them instead?
My process was somewhat similar to what you describe Reuben. After realizing that it was not God that gave me false ideas and hopes, my anger transferred to the church because that’s where I learned the stuff. My anger at the church was relatively short lived though because I also recognized that the church as an institution does not teach things like The God of the Lost Car Keys. (Yes, I am sure you could find examples in manuals that allude to the idea but in general I don’t recognize it as something I hear every week in SS or priesthood.) The church really does make attempts at teaching the pure doctrine of Christ (although they also like to try to add to it). It was the recognition that it is really individuals in the church who teach these things that allowed me to move past the anger because I was/am able to forgive them. That doesn’t mean I’m anger free or that I have just given a blanket forgiveness – there is power in the dark side and part of that power is remembering so I don’t get hurt again. Those twinges of anger remind me of that.
The other important part of the process for me was formulating what I believe about God. I recognize that the God I believe in is not much like the testimony meeting God, and when I say God I know what I’m talking about but most people who hear me envision the God they believe in. It is in reality the same God (usually) but our views are different. My God is much more like the deist version – the noninterventional Creator. We all need to come up with our own version, but my advice is the less you expect from your God the better off you will be. I don’t expect anything from mine.
Perhaps this should be a thread of its own as we do seem to be moving away from the original topic.
Joni wrote:If God doesn’t see fit to correct the sexist assumptions of His prophets,with whom He presumably communicates on a regular basis, then doesn’t He share some of the blame? He has never, in 180+ years of direct revelation, insisted that His wife get Her fair share of praise and gratitude for Her role in the creation. Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision! We wouldn’t have to keep Her in the shadows since She would have been a vital part of our doctrine from day one.
All this scripture, and God never saw fit to plainly say that buying and selling other human beings is wrong. That helps me keep my expectations of God’s communications low and strengthens my opinion that we are here to think and do right for each other.So, when I hear we can’t change because God hasn’t told us to, I almost want to say that I need to go find people who realize that it’s up to us to change. (On a bad day….)
Quote:Imagine how different the church would be if Heavenly Mother had been a participant in the First Vision
That is precisely why I love the 1832 version of the First Vision. It was one being. It was about Forgiveness. It even holds whispers of becoming a Deist.
The Heavenly Mother who arrived in my heart at the age of 4 is absolutely central to everything we do. She has comforted me privately in dark times. I believe her artistry shapes more than we ever imagine. I imagine earth creation like a massive Jr. High school project. Even the kid who “does it on his own” had some help whether in brain storming, supply collection, or final touch up painting. Parents were there.
As a women I go as far as I can, and I watch my direction so I don’t close doors for other women. It’s a haul but I think Heavenly Mother appreciates my effort.
Many of our issues stem from confusing people’s (especially men’s) words as God’s pure truth. That is true, especially, about things written thousands of years ago, many of which were understood by the people who wrote them to be figurative, symbolic, mythological, etc. I love Holy Cow’s interpretation of the creation / Garden narrative. I love the view of it as describing the premortal choice we made to leave God / the Gods and follow Lucifer into a world of toil and pain. I love the view of It showing the equality of premortality and the inequality of mortality. I love other views. I don’t love other views. I actively dislike other views. I despise other views.
I am free to take that stance. I am free to be me.
DarkJedi wrote:my anger transferred to the church because that’s where I learned the stuff.
I think I had a bit of an epiphany.
1) I am resentful at the church for teaching me assumptions that did not hold up to be true in my life.
2) I am resentful at the church for failing to accept/embrace/understand me in my post FC state.
IOW, there is ongoing trauma as I perceive the church to be continuing to reject me.
As to Heavenly Mother, I am really quite surprised that her existence has become an orthodox teaching. She is found nowhere in the standard works. What we know about her seems to come from the same speculative sources that give us “As man is God once was” and the Adam-God theory. I see the essay on HM as taking a huge step in bringing Her out of the speculative realm.
However, as you point out, normalizing the theory of her existence opens up its own can of worms.
Roy wrote:
I think I had a bit of an epiphany.1) I am resentful at the church for teaching me assumptions that did not hold up to be true in my life.
2) I am resentful at the church for failing to accept/embrace/understand me in my post FC state.
IOW, there is ongoing trauma as I perceive the church to be continuing to reject me.
Interesting.
1) I was resentful of the church for a short time after transferring that resentment from God. I ended up transferring again, though – to people members in general (and sometimes specific individuals). Much of this teaching happened so long ago that it’s worthless to hold the grudge, some of the people are dead. I could be deceiving myself, but I really do believe it’s people who led me astray as opposed to the church. I don’t resent the church (perhaps I have forgiven?) and I don’t resent the individuals/groups (I think I have definitely forgiven). That does not mean that I don’t have feelings about it all the time, I do go to F&TM after all. For the most part I chalk it up to not fully understanding or being deceived themselves.
2) I’m with you. I think I have met with some acceptance and understanding, but I am still a llama among sheep. I’m not sure if it’s the church or the members I resent for this.
I learned about Heavenly Mother from a non-member (an anti one actually). I was within my first few months of membership and asked my mentors who explained her as best they could to me. One of the things I liked about the church, especially early on in my membership, was that it seemed like most things made sense. A God that was beg enough to fill the universe but could fit in my heart made no sense to me, the Mormon God made sense. Such was the case with Heavenly Mother – she made sense. My perceptions and understanding of both (and many other things) has certainly evolved and changed vastly over time, but she still makes sense – more sense than Adam participating in the creation. With that I’ll take my general stance and focus on what I do believe and what I believe there is enough scriptural evidence of and wait on the rest. I do believe the fullness of the gospel is here (I don’t believe it ever left, actually) and how God did the creation doesn’t seem to be a part of it.
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