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Hi Everyone… On Stay LDS (& supposedly on NOM) – most embrace the “middle way” of incorporating what seems good & leaving what seems not so good of the LDS church.
I was thinking how the spiritual symbolic meanings of middle way could seem similar to luke warm.
Both are not extreme.
But I think there are some differences – spiritually.
Luke warm, seems to represent being spiritually paralyzed – too scared to make a move toward being cold or hot.
Maybe it’s an effort to please too many masters, not taking a clear stand either way.
“I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.So then because thou art luke-warm, & neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.”
-Rev 3:15-16 Based on subsequent scriptures, it may also be implying that being content with material richness makes one apathetic toward striving for spiritual richness.
I see the middle way as the road less traveled – a commitment to spiritual progress… embracing “good news,” despite fears, carving your unique spiritual pioneer path…
“Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law & the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, & broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, & many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, & narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, & few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.”-Matt 7:12-16 What do you think are spiritual differences between taking the middle way & being luke warm?
Yes I agree, well said. When I saw the title of this post I was going to share my thoughts – but you essentially covered what I was thinking. 
“The Middle Way” is a way of life that requires serious commitment to finding one’s own self – of serious introspection and careful consideration – of being willing to be exposed to everything to see what rings true to one’s own heart and mind – of being willing to worship “according to the dictates of one’s own conscience” and granting that same privilege to everyone else – of being willing to take risks in the pursuit of self-actualization but also being willing to sacrifice in many areas where community is more important than self – to risk falling often but committing to get up and keep moving forward every time – etc. Being lukewarm (kinda-of warm) is easy, as is being “lukecold”; finding an authentic way is not.
In President Uchtdorf’s Ensign message this month, he writes of how we always are in the middle of invisible end points. It’s embracing that “present-ness” and finding the god within that is at the heart of “The Middle Way”. Frankly, it’s much, much easier to just float along downstream and let life happen to you (be lukewarm), than to fight constantly against the current to find the path of greatest growth.
before way gets a chance…let me voice my opinion that myself, and probably many many others here, are “boiling hot” in their effort to find a middle way to make the church work. To accuse me of being luke warm is insulting beyond belief.
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Frankly, I think cwald probably is one of the least lukewarm people I have known in my entire life. Given his effort to make it work in the face of what he’s experienced, I can’t express how much awe I have for his stubborn determination to endure to the end. People who equate the kind of path of which we speak when we use the term “middle way” with being lukewarm simply don’t understand those who are stumbling valiantly along that path. The “iron rod” has special meaning to people who are being mocked for their sincere effort to keep a hold of it (or rediscover it) as best they can.
My first thought is that “luke warm” is not a bad thing as it avoids freezing water and boiling water…and is a comfortable middle. However, most connote Luke warm in religion as a negative thing and use it to mean that someone just doesn’t care enough to have faith in things. And that is the misconception I think most have, because as Ray said, members like cwald who fight hard to reconcile their faith honestly, are not Luke warm.
The middle way is much more of a personal thing, a personal journey in a mature balance of free will and humble obedience…and other paradoxes that can’t be dictated to us but must come from within, full of strength and bold faith. It is finding ways to make it work for the right reasons, not giving in and just not caring.
I agree. The middle way is a thoughtful path, understanding and accepting and exploring the complexities of our faith’s (and life’s) sometimes conflicting paradoxes. But being lukewarm is just a cop-out, trying to avoid action, choosing not to choose, procrastinating and being uncommitted. Orson wrote:Yes I agree, well said. When I saw the title of this post I was going to share my thoughts – but you essentially covered what I was thinking.
So, are you telling me that you have some of the crazy thoughts I have?
Orson, thanks.
Old-Timer wrote:“The Middle Way” is a way of life that requires serious commitment to finding one’s own self – of serious introspection and careful consideration – of being willing to be exposed to everything to see what rings true to one’s own heart and mind – of being willing to worship “according to the dictates of one’s own conscience” and granting that same privilege to everyone else – of being willing to take risks in the pursuit of self-actualization but also being willing to sacrifice in many areas where community is more important than self – to risk falling often but committing to get up and keep moving forward every time – etc.
Being lukewarm (kinda-of warm) is easy, as is being “lukecold”; finding an authentic way is not.
In President Uchtdorf’s Ensign message this month, he writes of how we always are in the middle of invisible end points. It’s embracing that “present-ness” and finding the god within that is at the heart of “The Middle Way”. Frankly, it’s much, much easier to just float along downstream and let life happen to you (be lukewarm), than to fight constantly against the current to find the path of greatest growth.
Well put, Ray!I agree – it is definitely easier to go along with the strong push of peer-pressure.
And as you implied, in fighting against the current – is primarily fighting against what is ungodly, not fighting against relating with people.
This is challenging to find ways to relate when internally, I’m fighting for principles they strongly believe against.
It takes a lot of energy to constantly consider different valid perspectives.
SPG mentioned a few things that have stuck with me:
Having faith that can survive education is cool.
Possibilities are more truth based than facts.
Those that claim to have the truth have quit looking.
How do you have faith that can survive education????
This has baffled me for several years – as I’ve questioned this life-encompassing religion.
I want to believe – & I need to believe – but in what?
What belief can survive any honest, thorough inquiry?
I’m thinking that it’s believing in goals & in “functional illusions.”
Realizing maybe when I pray to Heavenly Father & Mother, they aren’t exactly as I imagine, but what matters (or what is functional) is that I resonate & feel love & connection when I do.
Facts seem to be dependent on perspective. “All things are relative.”
The higher dimensions are considered to be based on possibilities – the 10th dimension being: infinite possibilities of infinite possible universes.
When I consider something to be fact, it limits other possibilities – it limits the gospel/good news I’m willing to embrace, even when it’s “unpopular.”
Also, if I pray and expect the fact to change without me doing anything, it’s faith without works & won’t “work.”
As you mentioned, Ray, the middle way is a process of finding one’s own authentic self & abilities.
cwald wrote:before way gets a chance…let me voice my opinion that myself, and probably many many others here, are “boiling hot” in their effort to find a middle way to make the church work.
To accuse me of being luke warm is insulting beyond belief.
Sometimes there is a tendency to jump to conclusions – especially when TBMs hear some questioning of the church.It’s easier to jump to conclusions, than to leave one’s mind open to possibilities, even if such conclusions are false.
Heber13 wrote:…The middle way is much more of a personal thing, a personal journey in a mature balance of free will and humble obedience…and other paradoxes that can’t be dictated to us but must come from within, full of strength and bold faith. It is finding ways to make it work for the right reasons, not giving in and just not caring.
I like how you put this, Heber.There are a lot of paradoxes to embrace, which might be partly why it can be challenging.
Also, it isn’t an externally motivated cut & dry – cookie cutter way – but rather a personal, internal process.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I agree. The middle way is a thoughtful path, understanding and accepting and exploring the complexities of our faith’s (and life’s) sometimes conflicting paradoxes. But being lukewarm is just a cop-out, trying to avoid action, choosing not to choose, procrastinating and being uncommitted.
Summed up well.I’d say that I’m getting used to not thinking like everyone else around me – but “marching to the tune of my own drummer” (hopefully not literally lol).
In the past…when things were going pretty well, I became somewhat luke-warm.
Then, when something stinky hit the fan, that’s when my faith kicked into gear.
This still applies somewhat, however, I think for me lately, my focus on intellectual learning stifles my faith somewhat, & can make me feel luke warm.
I treasure those times when I feel the spirit.
(Question for all:)
What do you do to keep the passionate spirit alive?wayfarer wrote:all so well said. my position on middle way is
here
Thank you – interesting that we’re on the same wave-length again.I especially like what you mentioned here:
wayfarer wrote:you are an independent voter, and carefully vote based upon issues and what you feel to be right, does this mean you are indifferent? lukewarm?
I believe the Middle Way is to objectively seek the truth in things, recognizing that truth has many dimensions. That a myth is not literally true does not mean it does not contain moral truth.
This idea of embracing moral truths/principles over the literal “facts” is helpful in understanding, empathizing with & loving (striving for what’s good for) others & ourselves.
Featherina wrote:(Question for all:)
What do you do to keep the passionate spirit alive?
I have tried very hard lately to serve, serve, serve. Loving others is always the motivational juice that feeds my spirit.
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