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Hi Everyone, I would like your input on an interesting dilemma happening with us that could cause complications with our membership in the church. Like most of you, I have one foot in the door of the church and one foot out. I ‘cherry pick’ what I think is good and right about the church and put the rest on the back burner until ‘further light and knowledge’ come to me. I still attend Relief Society because that is the place I feel the spirit the most and enjoy the sisterhood. I am a good visiting teacher, like my companion, and care about the sisters I visit. Once a month my husband and I get together with a group of ’empty nesters’ from our ward to have dinner, home evening, and play games. We enjoy our group of lds friends and like the members in our ward. It is somewhat difficult since my husband has left the church and I am semi-active, because they know we do not have a full testimony like they have. Nevertheless, they know we like many of the teachings of the church and have much in common still. They are very loving and kind to us with the hope that in time we will work through our ‘doubts’ and come back full force to the fold.
Well, even though my husband likes the people, and wanted the gospel to be true, he now believes the church is false and cannot be a part of it. But, about a week ago he told me that he would like to find another church or social group we could be a part of. On ocassion we have attended the local Unitarian church because our gay son has asked us to check it out being it is a gay affirming church and they accept whatever spiritual journey you are on. So, we have attended the past two weeks and found the people to be wonderful there. They have about 7 gay members that were wanting to be supportive of our gay son. We also met the head of our cities local gay affirming group there and some gays who used to be lds there. We felt really comfortable in this church and believe it could be a good place for us.
So, here is the dilemma, if my husband and I decide we could be happy being a part of this group and become active there (not to become members) but just as a social connection, would that jepordize our membership in the lds church? I would still attend RS and visit teach, but I would also attend this Unitarian church with my husband. We don’t really want our names to be taken off the records of the church. But my husband wants a social & spiritual group where he can believe whatever he wants and help our gay son have a place he can feel good going to with us. Our gay son will soon be coming home for Christmas and he is excited about going with us on Dec. 13 to the Unitarian church to see the children of that congregation put on the “Charles Dicken’s ” play ‘A Christmas Carol’ as well as meet the new gay friends I have connected with in this Unitarian church. I did not know that Charles Dickens was a Unitarian as well as Thomas Jefferson, John Adam, and Susan B. Anthony etc. It means so much to our gay son that we affirm him in this way. On the other hand, we know we will get alot of flack from our lds friends and evangelical daughter if they discover we are doing this. So, my question is how do we handle this and what might the ramifications be?
It wasn’t a problem until recently to hold membership in other churches. I believe the most recent update of the Church Handbook of Instruction reversed that long standing policy. The CHI used to state that membership in another church was not grounds for official discipline. Now I think it is says it might be. That change was a surprise to me. I think though if you do not official join as a member of the Unitarian church, that probably circumvents the problem.
I was paying attention to this because last year I registered for ordination as a minister in the Universal Life Church so that I could perform the wedding ceremony for some friends. I know a lot of people roll their eyes and say it is just an “internet” church, but I do actually take the concept seriously. For one thing, it allows me to be acknowledge in official settings as someone who can minister to people. I also like the free-form nature. They have only two requirements in their creed: Promote religious freedom and “do that which is right.” I don’t think that minimalist framework conflicts with being LDS, and sometimes I minister to people who do not fit into the LDS Church’s way of doing things (and are not members of the LDS Church).
Hi Bridg! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving! I don’t have any wisdom on this to share because I really don’t know, but I am guessing Val is right that if you don’t officially join the new church that your records would remain as they are right now. I suppose I could see the temple recommend being the primary issue more than membership.
I have asked myself over these past months if it was crucial to my membership in the church if my social circles weren’t LDS — something I would love to explore but haven’t yet. I also feel that I have invited nonmember friends to attend church activities or even services for no other reason than they were my friends and I wanted them to be with me on a special occasion or just for some good food. I can’t see how it would be different if you are the one visiting another group.
Hi Bridget…wow, what a great opportunity for you to support your son, I would absolutely do all of it — for your son, your husband, your marriage, and for you! The Unitarians are a fantastic group of unconditionally loving, supportive people. And if Mormons really understood them, they would understand that their “doctrine” (if you want to call it that) totally allows you to have your LDS beliefs and activities. They really won’t even judge you in any way even if you discuss it there. I’m going to say something (I’m sure Swim is about to say this anyway…
😆 ) that might offend a bit, but I noticed that you were more concerned with what the local ward members would think of you than anything else. In my mind, that is the wrong reason to do something. It seems to me that you have a chance to be very supportive of some important family members, enjoy some new friendships with great people, and still retain your current callings/activity in your ward. Seems like a huge win-win-win for you…and it may help you get past the common codependent tendencies many of us Mormons have.Good luck!
My best friend is UU, although her mother was raised LDS. They are a terrific church, and very welcoming to a variety of viewpoints – although someone who is politically conservative is probably NOT as welcome to express those views. They definitely lean left. Quote:I did not know that Charles Dickens was a Unitarian as well as Thomas Jefferson, John Adam, and Susan B. Anthony etc.
That’s one way of looking at it, but remember, there were unitarians and universalists that (in the 1960s IIRC) formed the UU church. Thomas Jefferson self-proclaimed as a “deist.” The church’s mantras have evolved over time as have most faiths. JS’s father, JS Sr. was a universalist, and there is clearly a ring of universalism to LDS doctrines like the plan of salvation.
Thank you all for your replies. They really helped. My husband was saying that we would be like any other lds part member family where the one member might go to another faith. And I agree that they allow you to believe spiritually what you want. They know we have a Mormon background and did not blink an eye. Everyone expresses where they come from and where they are at now and it is so respectful. Alot of them are agnostic yet humanitarians. One older lady who lost her husband two years ago believes in re-incranation and I expressed my views and experiences with her. We were both so respectful. One gay guy came from a Christian family who has dis-owned him for turning out gay. The UU church is his family now and he said that so many of his gay friends were kicked out of their Christian homes when their families found out and had to sleep on the streets. It made me sooo sad. He also said that Christianity turned him off because he could not understand how God could condemn someone to hell who had never heard of Christ but lived a good life, yet a Christian who accepted Christ and then lived a bad life went to hell. It was strange because my first impluse was to share the lds gospel with him then and tell him that is not so. I do feel good about doing this for our family and what others think comes secondary. But, they are liberal politically and I am much more moderate and conservative. So, I just voice the things I support. I think it is a good experience to have non lds friends who are good people because it helps you see how it is one’s heart that matter most. It will be interesting to see what experiences we have there and I believe God will bring people into our lives that we can help and they can help us.
Bridget
bridget_night wrote:It will be interesting to see what experiences we have there and I believe God will bring people into our lives that we can help and they can help us.
Bridget
Cool! Please keep us informed about your experience there…I’d like to know how it all evolves.
Good luck!
By the way, a wonderful gay man I met at the UU church who has been in a committed relationship now for 20 years, offered to write my son and welcome him to visit the UU church when home for Christmas. Just to show you the calibar of people I have met there here is what he emailed my son the first time he wrote him. (They have been comunicating back and forth since): “Hi Johnathan,
You don’t know me, but I just spoke with a lovely lady who happens to be your mother. She visited our church, today and endeared herself to me and my partner, Terry, over the obvious concern and love she has for you.
I should start at the beginning: My partner, Terry, and I showed up at our church, the Unitarian Universalist Church, in Davenport this morning like we do every Sunday. One of the wonderful, older ladies who has been a member for many years usually takes it upon herself to help visitors feel welcome. This morning, she discovered your mother, who was visiting, and was happily talking away when we arrived. She introduced us to your mother, because she had expressed an interest in helping you feel comfortable, should you decided to visit a church during your Christmas visit this year. I was impressed by her desire to “scout” out for you an environment in which you would feel welcome and comfortable.
She seemed to have taken a liking to Terry and me and she told us a little bit about you. Don’t worry…I KNOW how mothers are. They say things we would rather they didn’t, but believe me, it was strikingly obvious that your mother had your best interests at heart and that was touching.
She had apparently decided to find a gay group or “mentor”–as she said–that could help you feel more comfortable with being gay. Wow…that’s a lot to ask for and not something that one can easily recommend to another, especially not knowing the recipient of such unsolicited advice. Still, as I keep saying, your mother’s obvious concern for you showed through the entire time.
Okay…how am I supposed to make you be a happy, well-adjusted, self-accepting gay man? Obviously, I can’t do that, only you can. The fact that you are a couple thousand miles away, that you are half my age, that I don’t know you, that I don’t understand nor do I appreciate your unique experiences, all contribute to a difficult assignment. Still, I suppose there are some basic, common sense insights that I’ve learned about being gay and happy that I could pass on. Sounds pretty presumptuous of me to imagine that you are even interested, but for your mother’s sake, I’ll tell you this: In spite of the common misapprehension that our thoughts, fears, questions and feelings regarding being gay are somehow unique to us, most of us have been through it all before–to some degree. Intensities vary with the individual and personal judgments and conclusions differ according to our own experiences. Still, we’re all pretty much the same, under a wild variety of surfaces. We just want to be loved, to love and to be left alone while we do it. The search always seems too long, and we kiss a lot of toads before finding our prince charming, but there are rewards.
I personally think it’s important to be your own best friend, first of all. You, Johnathan, are the only person you have to spend the rest of your life with. You had damn well better like yourself first. From the little your mom said, you sound like an unusually likeable person. Your sensitivity, inner reflection, concern for others and desire to do what’s best set you apart. I do hope you take pride in that. It sounds like it would be an honor to be your friend. Please know you’re special and worthwhile. There is only one of you. Okay…enough of the cliché’s, but I think you get my point, and I hope you agree that liking yourself is a goal worth pursuing.
Terry and I have will have been together for 20 years, in March. We are happy, devoted to each other, monogamous and satisfied with our life together. While we’re certainly not unique in that, I know it’s not always easily attainable. Believe me, though…there are any number of guys who are looking for what you are looking for. They want what you want. They want you. Of course, there are plenty who want you for purely selfish reasons and weeding out that kind takes experience and practice. Certainly, it doesn’t mean that when you fail, you are doomed to a life of solitude. Take the lessons you learned and apply them to the next experience.
Oh, GEEZ! I sound like a preachy, old fool. I don’t mean to, but it’s hard to know what to say to someone about whom you know nothing, but want to make a good impression. I know this much: You deserve to be happy and being gay has nothing to do with the success or failure of that goal. It’s all dependent upon what you feel you deserve. Sounds to me like you deserve the best. I sure don’t think your mother would argue that point.
I hope I get to meet you some day. In the meantime, PLEASE feel free to write anytime you want. As you can tell, I never know when to shut up and am always happy to chat with nice guys. Please don’t worry that I’m some creepy, old troll-kind of guy. Terry would have already killed me it that were the case!
Take care of yourself, Johnathon, and take real pride in the love your mother obviously has for you. She’s a special lady.
Your friend,
Ed
bridget_night, This thread has made my day. I have twice before visited the local UU fellowship. It’s actually just down the road from my ward building. I need to be going there for my gay son. The problem is that two of my TBM children (w/ 7 grandkids) are in my ward. I going to start by attending UU once-a-month (first Sunday, I can’t handle fast & testimony anymore). You are a light upon a hill! Blessings.
bridget_night wrote:So, here is the dilemma, if my husband and I decide we could be happy being a part of this group and become active there (not to become members) but just as a social connection, would that jepordize our membership in the lds church? I would still attend RS and visit teach, but I would also attend this Unitarian church with my husband. We don’t really want our names to be taken off the records of the church. But my husband wants a social & spiritual group where he can believe whatever he wants and help our gay son have a place he can feel good going to with us.
…
So, my question is how do we handle this and what might the ramifications be?
Valoel’s comments were interesting regarding the change in the CHI, but I think that only applies if you join the other church officially, not just associating or attending the other church.I think the thing you’d have to deal with is Stage 3 members of your ward would view you as “slipping away”, since it is hard in stage 3 to conceive why you would need to go anywhere else…the church is true and that’s all you need. Unfortunately for many of us, we’ve found it is not ALL you need, and I don’t think that is a problem. Participating in groups outside the church can provide great opportunities you can’t find in the church, and if you continue to attend RS and ward events, there should be no impact on your status of your membership. You may find some things in the UU fellowship you and your hubby really benefit from, and you may find some things that remind you that you really like things in the mormon church.
I think you should follow your heart on what leads you to greater peace and enlightenment, and you probably don’t need to publicize it a lot at church as it is no one else’s business.
Article of Faith#11:
Quote:We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
George–you made my dad by saying that! And Heber…I totally agree with you. Here is where I can express my thoughts and feelings when I can’t to stage 3 members. Bridget Quote:if my husband and I decide we could be happy being a part of this group and become active there (not to become members) but just as a social connection, would that jepordize our membership in the lds church?
Absolutely not. Period. End of discussion.
😆 Seriously, what everyone else said – with a heaping, double portion of Article of Faith #11. Don’t join; no membership issue.
This kind of unique “hybrid” worship hasn’t been talked about alot here (that I remember) but it is refreshing to hear discussed alternative “paths” via multiple perspectives. In some ways, I can feel this as the soul of “stayLDS”, searching, discovering, “circumscribing”, etc. Fun!!
swim, at first I thought you typed “circumcising” – and I just couldn’t remember where that was part of our mission. 😳 You beat me at my own game, Ray!!! 😆 😆
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