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Sometimes, when I do good things, I am not sure if the good emotion within my heart is the Spirit or just human feeling of joy for helping someone else. It seems from an early the Church has always taught me that everything in my life had some spiritual significance. When I did really well in a cross-country race or on a test, that must have meant the Lord directly blessed me. And when I’ve struggled with anxiety, that must mean God is giving me a trial.
BUT I DON’T LIKE THAT! I don’t think God just picks winners and losers. I think my success in this world is ultimately to me! I think that when I do well at something, my talent and hard work has a lot to do with it. I know God created me, but I don’t think He micro-manages my life.
When I discuss these things with non-member friends, they tell me that when they perform an act of charity, they don’t feel the Holy Ghost. They say they just feel good, they feel the natural human feeling that they are doing good when they help others.
What I am getting at is the Spirit is such a vague concept. When I feel good doing something in the Church, it just is hard to discern the difference between the comfortable feelings of community and acceptance, and what it is to truly feel when the Holy Ghost is manifesting itself to me.
You don’t need to be sure about whether the good feelings are from the Spirit or just your own human feeling. Start with what you know. You know God created you. You know that good feelings result from doing good things. You know that phenomena is either universal or nearly so. Put it together and what do you get? God created you with an inborn reward mechanism for doing good things. “Likewise all to whom God gives … to … find enjoyment in their toil–this is the gift of God” (Ecclesiastes 5:19, NRSV). To add to what tagriffy said, I don’t even try most times to make the distinction. I go with what feels good and right to my own heart and mind – and figure God will understand my effort and intent. I also can’t imagine a perfect God being a micro-manager, but I do see the spirit as a part of every good thing. If you feel good about something I think it is appropriate to say that is the spirit – in Mormon speak. As the others have said focus more on moving in a positive direction no matter how that experience is expressed. This is why I feel like I’ve never had a real testimony. I have not had experiences that I couldn’t easily attribute to my own thoughts or emotions. If it isn’t a clearly external sensation, then how can I ever know if it is from God (letting me know there is a God) or if it is just myself. Doing what feels right is certainly a way to go about life. But when it comes to spiritual knowledge, then it seems like a problem to not have a clear way to tell the spirit from oneself. Unless you accept that “ye are gods and children of the most high God”. If we really are developing gods, then understanding and following our highest nature (that which seeks after and does good) and believing that God will “speak to us” in whatever way we are able to “hear” opens up all kinds of possibilities that are different than hearing an external voice.
I have words come into my mind on various occasion that were more like a separate voice than at other times, but I have never, not once, in my entire life, “heard an external voice” in the classic, traditional sense. I’m fine with that. I’m doing the best I can with who I am, and, ultimately, that’s the standard we have.
journeygirl wrote:This is why I feel like I’ve never had a real testimony. I have not had experiences that I couldn’t easily attribute to my own thoughts or emotions. If it isn’t a clearly external sensation, then how can I ever know if it is from God (letting me know there is a God) or if it is just myself. Doing what feels right is certainly a way to go about life. But when it comes to spiritual knowledge, then it seems like a problem to not have a clear way to tell the spirit from oneself.
I feel like I do have a real testimony, but not because they it derives from something that couldn’t be attributed to my own thoughts or feelings. Mostly, I’ve just assumed that God is working through them. I figure as long as try to put them forth as “proof” of anything, that isn’t a problem.
Old-Timer wrote:Unless you accept that “ye are gods and children of the most high God”.
I have words come into my mind on various occasion that were more like a separate voice than at other times, but I have never, not once, in my entire life, “heard an external voice” in the classic, traditional sense. I’m fine with that. I’m doing the best I can with who I am, and, ultimately, that’s the standard we have.
I had that classic, traditional external voice happen once, and only once in my life. Ironically, it is the one I’m most suspicious of.
When it comes to just feeling good I would actually say that is the spirit. If I help someone in need and I feel a feeling of satisfaction it is fine to take that as a confirmation from god that i am on the right path. I think the problem arises when you try to make decisions in your life based on those feelings. Will god really tell me which job to take, can the spirit help me see the future and then act accordingly. From my experience this is where it gets off track and people make terrible mistakes and would have been better to just make decisions based on their own experience.
God does not intervene in the affairs of men nor does he micromanage anything. You are on your own for the most part. God is more of a cheerleader than a coach.
seeker wrote:What I am getting at is the Spirit is such a vague concept. When I feel good doing something in the Church, it just is hard to discern the difference between the comfortable feelings of community and acceptance, and what it is to truly feel when the Holy Ghost is manifesting itself to me.
Maybe it’s all part of the same thing.There are many paths to God/GOoD…
And as Jesus taught, “The kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you.” -Luke 17:21
Sometimes the most emotionally passionate ones may be like a wild, risky ride, but we may be more likely to learn quickly than being “luke warm.”
God is considered to be similar to theories of dark (invisible) energy/matter that permeates everything and everyone…
“Lift a stone, and you will find me there.” -Thomas (-Not part of canon, but IMO, many truths aren’t.)
I’ve been mistaken in interpreting my emotions for the spirit, but now I realize that the spirit won’t contradict that which is GOoD.
And I also realize when it comes to several good options, each decision can be good – even if it takes us in vastly different directions.
I imagine the worst decision is no decision – but paralyzing fear of making a mistake.
What blows my mind are contemplating higher dimensions like infinite possibilities of infinite possible universes…
I’m already struggling with paradox after paradox and death of old illusions (old wine bottles) and birth of new ones.
I tend to think that everything comes about in a natural way, including the Lord’s will. Natural, as in by what we would call ‘scientific’ means. Examples: the Lord created us through evolution, the Lord created the Universe by the Big Bang. The glory of God is intelligence so by us becoming more intelligent and discovering the hidden truths of existence, I in no way think this disproves Him or the scriptures. I think it glorifies Him by us becoming more intelligent…more like Him. I think the scriptures were written as they were, sometimes in contrast to modern science, because that’s the way they had to be framed to be understood by the people of the time. If Genesis said we evolved from monkeys or whatever… surely no one of the time would have believed it. Now, how I believe this may relate to the Spirit:
If the Lord created everything to happen in a natural way, could it be that “the Spirit” is, in the sense that it prompts us and confirms truth for us, is something that the Lord has placed innately inside us; a spiritual part of our subconscious mind if you will. After all, we are all His spirit children so we theoretically have a part of His spirit dwelling within us; therefore, could it be that when we do good things: perform service to others, experience compassion and love, etc…when we do that which causes us to “feel the Spirit”, could it be that its not some other-worldly, external phenomena that the Lord sent to make us feel that way but that the Lord has placed the Spirit within us from the beginning and its simply up to us to captivate the environment within ourselves: an environment of love, peace, patience, faith, and humility… so that we can be in tune with that(the) Spirit within us enough to feel its presence?
What I’m saying is…rather than trying to distinguish between strong positive emotions and the Spirit, what if those strong positive emotions ARE the Spirit and we’re expecting something external… when the Spirit was placed in us, in the form of those emotions I.e. fruits of the Spirit… by the Lord all along. And when we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, its a blessing to make us more receptive to this(the) Spirit within us rather than something external coming into us. I’m in no way saying the Holy Ghost isn’t an actual being, It clearly says It is in the scriptures. But the Holy Ghost can be everywhere at once so is it not possible that It is WITHIN each of us always…its just up to us to create the internal environment necessary to notice? I know some of that is pretty deep and bizarre but to me it seems entirely feasible. The concept just crossed my mind as I read this thread. I hope this isn’t entirely misunderstood.
I would like to say that this site is a blessing and I’ve enjoyed reading all of your thoughts. I share many of your struggles and sentiments. I look forward to the discussions we will have more than you will ever know. I feel like this is my “ward”. I will be posting an introduction about how I came to have a faith crisis and how I’ve managed to cope with it soon. Peace Be With You All.
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