Discouraged and Sick of it All

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

Good point Sam. I’ve experienced that as well.

Thanks. It’s often worst in groups which are idealistic and promote forms of equality. People can’t stop being people – good and bad. They drag all that through the door. In that sense, it’s worth comparing these religious groups with secular ones. They can have great aims and teachings, but once you’re in there, you see all the usual social dynamics in play.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

You didn’t say it was bad but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with dysfunctional projects.

Some more so than others, I imagine. I guess there are extremes w/anything, that’s what the middle way is supposed to be all about — avoiding extremes.

Quote:

Everyone’s different but for me I purposely avoided the full investigations when visiting with other religions, I wanted to keep it superficial. The theory was that a superficial investigation allowed me to skim off any good elements, hopefully before experiencing/internalizing any bad elements.

I’m also familiar w/that strategy, it’s fine as far as it goes if one is just playing the spiritual tourist (as I did for far too long, maybe, I started to feel like an amateur anthropologist), but then I started to feel bad for not really participating in anything and like maybe I was dragging the specific group down. To this day I avoid labeling myself w/the name of any religion, mainly because I feel I’d be a bad example of any of them and wouldn’t want anyone I encounter to think “if he’s typical of what all _______ are like, I don’t want anything to do with them!”

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

One thing I notice is how communities end up so much like each other. Even the right-on egalitarian ones where everyone gets a say (allegedly). There are usually dominant figures or a figure. Who these people are and what they are like makes a big difference to how toxic a community becomes, but you don’t want to fall out with them. All the other usual human traits end up in such communities too. People trying to raise themselves up the social hierarchy. Rivalry between people (which is often personal and nothing to do with the group’s aims)

I’ve found this phenomenon also to be true in my own decades of experience with seemingly every group under the sun. Maybe it just goes back to our basic hominid/simian small group hierarchy tendencies and instincts. I’ve also spent enough time in quite small but intense spiritual groups, often with good guidance from more experienced/mature members, to see how these social dynamics play out in detail and how they can be highlighted/magnified in very intense spiritual group situations. This can be a positive, if the individual pays attention to the phenomenon and develops some self-awareness about it.

It seems sometimes like there are more problematic / troubled people in spiritual groups, but maybe that’s for the same reason you run into a lot of sick people in hospitals. These groups attract people who have various issues, and sometimes the issues are not skillfully or compassionately addressed.

[Anonymous]

jamison wrote:

I have some financial problems and the Bishop questions me about why I need financial assistance when my hours got cut down to 20 hours per week due to the pandemic. Honestly, you are questioning why I need financial help. Then my Elders Quorum President says, I do not think the Bishop is going to accept any of your utility bills any more. I’m glad my hours got increased again, but honestly I pay tithes and offerings my whole life without fail, and I am getting scrutinized for a few utility bills?

Quote:

– From DJ —

I feel this and it hurts me that others also have this experience. I was getting monthly food orders when I was “cut off.” That’s it, just food, me, my wife, four small kids. It’s why I will never pay another penny in fast offerings, why I will not clean the building, and why I don’t feel guilty saying no to whatever calling or assignment I don’t want to do. And it’s why I’m much more stingy with tithing as well (I pay on net, or a little less). I’m sorry for you and your family.

I can’t agree more with this part of what you are experiencing. I have noticed a tendency for the church to be tight -fisted when it comes to money, although they place a rather huge burden on the members financially for most of their lives. This part stuck out to me in the opening post.

Granted, from having been on the front lines of welfare, there are people who tend to take advantage of the temporal provisions of the church at times. It seemed like in Welfare Committee we were always trying to figure out how long we would keep providing for families that often seemed like they didn’t want to help themselves (get more education, look for a better job, downsize into less expensive living circumstances). That wasn’t the case with @Jamison and @DarkJedi, but I’m reminded of those times when I reflect on when people would be cut off from church assistance. Prior to becoming a StayLDSer, I’m afraid I probably contributed to the perception that the Church isn’t there for people after the member has given generously for most of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

For me, I find it helpful to 1) lower my expectations from the church, 2) try to only expect things that the church is adept at delivering, and 3) try to clearly communicate those expectations/requests when I need them. For example, I think the church is good at helping people move and at bringing in meals for sick or injured individuals. I might ask the church to send some guys to help me load up a moving van for a one or two hour period. I might also ask for some meals to be brought in for a one to three day period if my wife or I are recovering from a surgery. These steps for managing expectations help me to feel cared for as a member of my faith community and that in turn helps reduce my feelings of resentment.

I am currently in a situation that I had mentioned earlier in this thread. My wife is having day surgery and will probably be in various stages of recovery for about a week. I plan to ask for 3 days of meals (one meal per day) to be brought in by the compassionate serve people. When I mentioned to DW that I plan to do this she said that she “didn’t want to be one of those people.” After a little more discussion, I reasoned with her that if we were not in a position to accept some help after a surgery then when would we ever be in that position?

My strategy is to ask for specific and limited help that I feel the church is practiced and adept at delivering. Getting a few days of meals brought in seems to fit that description. The situations that seem to work best for this strategy are those that are of medium difficulty, they are tasks that are outside the routine and stretch a family’s resources but not in an insurmountable way. As if to say, I could have done this myself but it would have been unpleasant and I fully appreciate the helping hand. If the situation is too easy then it seems silly to ask for help. If the situation is too hard/great then it seems that either it would be challenging to ask for a specific and limited form of help or that the type of help needed would not be the type that the church is practiced and adept and delivering.

For me, the sweet spot happens when the situation is of medium difficulty and the church has a program to deliver just the sort of specific and limited assistance that might be helpful. This helps me to feel like part of the community and that my contribution to the church is reciprocated.

[Author]

Posts