- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Quote:
Only Mormon’s can make coffee & tea sound like a “gateway” drug by using terms like addicted.
I’ve known multiple people who have tried hard to quit and couldn’t. For one, it was much worse than quitting tobacco. That is the clinical definition of addiction.
The VAST majority of people who drink coffee might not be addicted, but addiction to coffee is not a non-existent bogeyman.
Also, I would never call coffee a gateway drug. That would be silly.
Ray, though I’m no expert I don’t think not being able to quit something means you’re addicted. It’s when you can’t quit something even though it produces bad consequences like losing your job or deteriorating your health. I think that can happen with coffee (or food even) but probably less often than we say it does. One of the things that pushed me forward with drinking coffee was a testimony that was given in my ward. The lady said “even though there are health benefits to drinking wine and coffee, and they seem to be good social lubricants, I don’t want to be kept out of heaven by succumbing to them.”
I know most mormons are more chill than that, and that most just abstain because it’s part of being in the mormon community, and that makes total sense. I long ago lost the sense of community in mormonism because I moved around so much, and all my non-home wards have been large wards full of transient college students, so nobody knows you that well, and I don’t go out of my way to get to know all the new people. I have had a couple times where I was carrying a coffee across campus and was stricken with fear that an EQ presidency member would see me (all students)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:I think that can happen with coffee (or food even) but probably less often than we say it does.
Agreed.
I don’t think coffee is a huge deal. Back in the 1800s, many church people were against the idea of stimulants into your body. Mormons just codified it. I do think some people make it out in their minds to be a big deal. Some people I work with think they MUST have their coffee…I’m sure they could survive fine without it, it just comforts them to have it, and maybe a little kick from the caffeine, but not something drastic, more something psychological they put that value on it. That’s OK. That’s their “thing” or their little quirk. I doubt God cares. I have other colleagues at work that don’t drink coffee. Not because they are more enlightened, they just don’t, and that’s their “thing”.
I think church people overblow the value of abstaining from it. It just has become a taboo in the church, and known by all, so if you choose to drink it you are making a statement to others…is how they view it.
While others in the church will wonder if it is a sign of apostasy, most smart people will put it in perspective…or they should anyway.
I would much rather have a daughter who drinks coffee and does well in school and builds a career and is good-hearted and does service and loves people, than have a daughter who doesn’t drink coffee and thinks she is better than others because God blesses non coffee drinkers more than His other children.
Others outside the church may notice and say, “hey…aren’t you mormon?” But in reality, they don’t really care, in my experience.
If your wife is really worried about it and it bothers her, then what do you love more? Coffee or your wife’s feelings?
If you feel more focused at work and more socially upbeat…get a prescription that helps you focus. Nobody sees that as a taboo.
Since I don’t see coffee as a big deal, the question is…why is it a big deal that I
mustdrink it and make others wonder about me? Its just easier to live by the standard taught to me by my tribe. But if you just like it and just want to drink it, then go for it and don’t worry about what people think. J. Golden Kimball would often go against the grain…but he had great qualities that made up for his unorthodox ways…so…accept you’re not perfect but be a force for good in the world. Coffee or not.
Sister R, now in her 80’s, is one of the luminaries in my ward. She has been the RS President a couple of times in the last 2 decades, one of the best in my opinion and president of all the other organizations that women are allowed to lead when she was younger. Her husband has been a bishop, high counselor, stake Presidency, EQP, HPGP, etc. One would be hard pressed to find a more respected and active couple in our ward. Sister R grew up in the same neighborhood as one of my relatives which happened to be the east bench of Salt Lake where several previous apostles lived and so we feel a special connection with her. At a recent wedding reception I was joking around about my FIL who is an entrenched coffee drinker and Sister R shared a little secret with me. She has been drinking coffee all of her life. She admits it to the bishop during interviews and says she is “working on it.”
For half a century now, wink wink.
I don’t want to get any specific church leaders in trouble, but Sister R mentioned several familar names of leading church leaders of her generation who had immediate family members drinking coffee and some even kept it in their house. She told of a party when one of the apostle’s daughters announced her engagement to her friends and uncorked a bottle of champagne in her parents home and many of her friends had a little. Yep, Sister R drank champagne in the house of a well-know apostle with his daughter. Her father did not find out about it, until latter. Of course, the Mormon people could not resist that tasty morsel of gossip.
I don’t drink coffe but I do like the smell of it. If coffee abstinence is a way for you to demonstrate commitment to God or church authority and that works for you, then great. If you want to drink coffee then I do not see it as a moral issue and definitely not a health issue. Neither does Sister R nor her husband. If you are as tactful and skillful as Sister R you can get away with it for a very long time. At least that was true in the past. As the LDS responds to stress with retrenchment it might not work as well in the future.
Porter wrote:She admits it to the bishop during interviews and says she is “working on it.”
There you go…I think that is the think mormons care about.
We all have things we are working. We are all imperfect. If we are working towards good things, it can be OK. If it is a red flag followed by other behaviors that show the direction you’re heading towards is bad…they’ll love you so much they worry about you.
Don’t give them things to worry about. Show them your happiness and goodness…and the little tenets go away.
I agree with Roy also and I’ll add my experience. During many years of inactivity in the ’70’s and 80’s I drank coffee at work as a draftsman. I tried to drink sparingly so as not to become addicted for life but I eventually worked up to about 4 cups a day or more before going home. I eventually quit mainly because I knew I was dependent but don’t remember any side effects. Fast forward to a few years ago, I started to have one cup every morning at 5am to ease my hour and a half commute every day. Stopped again when I got my TR but I also stopped taking meds for depression. After awhile I started having a cup when got to work with honey (neutralizes the acid) and vanilla to help my moods. I don’t know why but I always wake up feeling terrible. One cup almost always snaps me out of my morning funk which is a daily occurrence and I have continued to do it in secret for a few years now. I feel a little bad but not guilty because it really is a natural lift and used moderately not unhealthy. I know it is not as bad for me as those crappy meds I was taking and although it doesn’t last all day I make myself deal with it later. Sometimes I’ll even have another cup later in the afternoon. Some may say I am trying to justify my actions. I consider it free agency for my own good and I will always keep it to myself so God himself can be my judge, not someone who doesn’t know the deep background. For me this is the right thing, and the right way to go about it is important. One more note then I’ll stop, when I was a deacon in the ’60’s a friend in my quorum was told by his doctor to drink a small amount of coffee, maybe a couple ounces, for a while to cure is constipation. That’s all I remember about it but any time I mention it to DW or a member I get a wide eyed shocked response and an explanation about…not going to go there. OK, one more thing. My son who is on his mission is teaching a family of rednecks. The mom is really the only one interested and actually coming to church but she has a condition that allowed her to get a prescription for marijuana. The SP said it was OK as long as she had a prescription. A more meaningful question during a TR interview would be: 1. Do you get regular exercise?
2. Do you consider yourself over weight?
3. What are you doing to stay healthy?
I’ve seen a number of people who have died early from heart disease. My BIL was a Bishop & died early because of it.
Yet as an organization we focus on coffee & tea.
Could Orrin Porter Rockwell be a member today?
(I hope that isn’t too silly.)
I don’t like coffee and have to add a lot of sugar and cream for it to suit my taste buds. Therefore I don’t drink coffee as coffee but do occasionally have a mocha frappe. I also occasionally drink green tea. I haven’t gone back to black tea yet but probably will in the future. Most of my caffeine comes from soft drinks and chocolate. I find that if I drink caffeinated beverages after noon and/or if I consume a lot of chocolate after noon I have a hard time getting to sleep and that my restless legs are aggravated.
Mike wrote:A more meaningful question during a TR interview would be:
1. Do you get regular exercise?
2. Do you consider yourself over weight?
3. What are you doing to stay healthy?
I’ve seen a number of people who have died early from heart disease. My BIL was a Bishop & died early because of it.
Yet as an organization we focus on coffee & tea.
Could Orrin Porter Rockwell be a member today?
(I hope that isn’t too silly.)
Perhaps so, but to the point, these are really also none of anyone’s business, right?I’m sorry. As usual I didn’t make my point very well. I was trying to say that for me the WOW overall deals with my overall health.
Instead of focusing on specific issues like coffee & tea (alcohol & tobacco).
I try to look at my overall health. The biggest issue is my weight & overall fitness.
I am making improvements in both areas.
The TR recommend process has a very narrow focus IMO.
The WOW was meant to have a wider application.
Abstaining from the “big 4” does not automatically make me a healthier person.
This short blurb from a post at bcc does a good job of summing up what the wow actually means for the church, and it’s really not about health: “I can think of three models for interpreting the Word of Wisdom:
1. Original literal intent: The 1833 revelation is taken literally. Excessive meat eating is out, as are wine and liquor, while mild barley drinks (beer) are in. “Hot drinks” = well, hot drinks.
2. Personally reinterpreted intent: Seeing the Word of Wisdom as a rather time-specific divine “greeting,” or example of best practice in antebellum healthy living, the believer adapts the principles to 2012, committing to living moderately and wisely. Maybe they drink tea, maybe they don’t, but if they do, it won’t be with too much sugar, because it is sugar (and the sugary food complex) that represent “evils and designs” in the 21st century.
3. Authorised reinterpreted intent: The 1833 text is not taken exactly at face value but is reinterpreted through official, normative channels in the LDS church. Thus, when considering what drinks are not kosher, official guidance from the church is sought, the answer in this case being “tea, coffee, alcohol.”
Only model two sees the Word of Wisdom primarily as a health code and it is the one most out of step with current LDS practice. That is telling. Model three is the official position of the church and while there are certainly health benefits to not smoking, drinking, etc., it is not the primary reason for adherence to the Word of Wisdom. Primarily it is about obedience to a principle that marks Mormons as different.”
Full post:
http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/09/11/why-the-caffeine-statement-is-important/#more-38589 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another meaningful question: Did you have your colonoscopy every 10 years after age 50?
This is definitely nobody’s business. But I might point out that President Hinckley and Elder McKonkie both died of colon cancer which was preventable. Those deaths became everybody’s business. So did a man who lived 2 doors down the street die of colon cancer and his sons were my sons good friends.
What a great oportunity missed to prevent literally thousands of deaths and suffereing.
Porter wrote:Another meaningful question:
Did you have your colonoscopy every 10 years after age 50?
Like.
Coffee’s beneficial effects are counteracted by how it can cause epilepsy, depression, hypertension, anxiety, insomnia, damage to teeth, heart attacks, angina and the fact it hardens the stool leading to piles and perhaps bowel cancer. I’ll eat coffee cake, but drink it? No frigging way. It gave me myself health problems including heart murmurs. Used to like it but don’t miss it since giving it up my health’s improved.
- The topic ‘Do any of you drink coffee?’ is closed to new replies.