Do Not Make Issues Cultural Wars

[Anonymous]

Thanks, swim,

I have always believed that we should be lead by faith, not fear.

[Anonymous]

When it comes to using war-like language for non-war situations, I don’t necessarily think its bad/harmful. Football is always linked to war or battle–most sports are–and it’s because war-like terms have become culturally understood in a variety of contexts. The dictionary has a few definitions for war: 1) A condition of active antagonism or contention; 2) A concerted effort or campaign to combat or put an end to something considered injurious. People that are against gay marriage/gay relationships, are using war-like terms in culturally understood, dictionaryily correct ways.

By using war-like terms, leaders of the anti-gay movement help inspire deep passion/emotion within their followers, and that leads to energetic efforts to fight the “battle”. I know that I said I don’t find the use of war-like terms harmful, and I used sports as an example, but I do think the use of bellicose language to try and prevent gays from gaining rights is unhelpful. The angry terminology seems to create more hate towards homosexuals, it seems to close peoples minds to any evidence that might help them understand gays better, and it ultimately creates a hostile environment that can only lead to bad things.

Articles like the one Cromar wrote aren’t good for anyone. Using the Bible to try and justify hate and anger towards gays seems like a useless approach. The the Old Testament has plenty of teachings that we don’t even think about accepting today–Leviticus 25:44-46 gives great advice on what kinds of slaves one can buy; Exodus talks about how a man can sell his daughter into slavery; Deuteronomy advises us to slay someone if they try and convince us to believe in other Gods; the list goes on and on. There is plenty of advice in the OT that we disregard–rightfully so–today. So, no, the Bible shouldn’t be used as an excuse to use volatile language towards homosexuality.

[Anonymous]

The problem with wars is they always have a body count. The cost is too high. The reward is absent.

Please watch this touching video tributeto those who have died in this war.

[Anonymous]

So…as Mormons…what should we do to diffuse the hateful tones coming from both sides of the issue?

I really haven’t kept up with the Church’s position so I just went to lds.org and did a search on “homosexuality”. There are plenty of talks/comments from various Church leaders…pretty much all saying the same thing…that same-gender attraction isn’t the “sin” but acting on it is….that homosexual acts violate the law of chastity…yada, yada, yada.

(The attitude in the fundamentalist community from the leadership is pretty much the same, if anyone was wondering.)

I really expect this rhetoric to tone down soon. It’s just too much in opposition to societal norms to allow church growth and retention of members IMHO. Until it does, however, there is probably going to continue to be ill feelings on both sides.

We’ll see….hope I’m incorrect.

[Anonymous]

[Just as a personal note]:

Thank you, everyone. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

I really love this community, and the last few comments are a GREAT example of why – as much for the humble and generous way you took my earlier comments as for the content.

[Back to the thread discussion]

[Anonymous]

Okay, I’ll “twist” this a different way (hopefully won’t tick Ray off too much? )

How literally do we believe the scriptures today? Yes, I know the AoF says we do, but there have been so many doctrines/teachings that have been changed that are still in the “scriptures,” I have to think about them differently today. For example:

“A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing,” Deut. 22:5; “Rise in the presence of the aged,” Lev. 19:32; “The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses,” Deut. 14:8,..you can see how outdated many teachings are. Even in modern times, many LDS prophets said the blacks will never receive the priesthood, and all the hispanic people are Lamanites.

Point is, I think “we” choose how much emphasis to put on the scriptures as literal, as opposed to metaphorical. And if we have done that already, can’t we also do that to modern issues like homosexuality? I really believe most the writers/prophets in scripture have done the best they could with what they knew at the time. BUT they were imperfect men! So I take “scripture” as metaphor, and incorporate the good messages…and leave out the rest.

But maybe that’s just me?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

“As far as it is translated correctly”

. . .

leaves SO much room for interpretation and honest effort to understand and even to disagree. I really like that one.

Quote:

“I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.”

Again, this provides SO much room for differing details within the same principles. Also, I think it’s fascinating how that statement gets mis-translated. It doesn’t say, “let them govern themselves.” He said, “they govern themselves.” There is NO “let them” involved. He recognized that they simply do.

Elder Packer is seen by many as a staunch, ultra-conservative, old-guard apostle. He gave a talk, however, in 1990 in which he said the following excerpts:

Quote:

“Most of the deciding must be left to you, the members of the Church, acting in harmony with the principles announced in the guidelines.”

“You will become more dependent upon the Spirit and more in need of personal revelation when the decisions are left to you.”

I think an understanding of these two quotes and Elder Packer’s statements can go a LONG way toward lessening the battle verbiage that clouds so many difficult issues.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

I think an understanding of these two quotes and Elder Packer’s statements can go a LONG way toward lessening the battle verbiage that clouds so many difficult issues.

Well said, Ray! (and thanks for not scolding me too much! )

I wanted to add (but had to go to lunch first….) that I think that as we evolve to view the scriptures more metaphorically, I think the “culture wars” will decrease. Of course there will always be the iron rodders that will pound their fists with “God said X, so we must obey explicitly!”

But it seems that we only have to pay attention to how most of the “scriptures” came to be. I mean, think about it…the Holy Bible which is viewed by most Christians as the unerrant, unchanging word of God, was politically assembled by the power-mongering, narcissistic Constantine as a means to control more people. Then when unaccepted gospels were found, they were burned and their followers exterminated.

Can we really give the book total credence as being absolutely inspired as the complete word of God?

😮

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