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I was reflecting on this the other day. There have been so many false alarms, and we have been at 11:59 pm for so many decades now (which I know is not that much from the perspective of eternity), I often wonder. Do you believe there will ever be a second coming? (Other than the personal one you are likely to get when you die?)
Three things we can be fairly sure of: * The human race will end.
* This world will end.
* This universe will end.
They might not happen all together but basically the bottom one will cause the top two to end, and the middle one will almost certainly cause the first, unless we get off Earth in sufficient numbers.
We live in bizarre times. I think the industrial revolution was a gamechanger as was our new found ability to destroy ourselves.
Depends entirely on how it is defined. Also, I have no clue, ultimately.
Old Timer wrote:
Depends entirely on how it is defined.Also, I have no clue, ultimately.
I feel this, right here, is at the root of all doctrine for me.
As for a literal second coming… let’s define it as at the end of the battle of Armageddon, the ressurected, immortal being who was known as Jesus Christ appears wearing a red robe, and saves the day. He smites the wicked, binds Satan in a really dark pit, and ushers in a thousand years of peace, where we will spend our days doing geneology and temple work.
I don’t know if it’ll happen or not, but I don’t think so. From what I understand, the source(s) of the claim have had a dubious track record, and I have a hard time taking most of it at face value. If it
doeshappen, I doubt it will happen in the way it was prophecied. That said, I am a big believer in the cyclical nature of the universe. What happens, will end. And what ends will happen again. If we believe Jesus was the Christ, then there will be a 2nd coming in some time and fashion. I think it goes along with the doctrine.
I do not believe it will be while I’m still alive.
It is a good thing to have faith in and to let it motivate me to behave today as if it were tomorrow. Am I ready to stand before God?
When I was a teenager (back in ’80s), it seemed to be mentioned more frequently than it is now. Of course, that was during the Cold War where it seemed the former U.S.S.R. had missiles pointed at U.S.A. (and vice versa). I can vividly remember a lesson in Seminary that laid out all the events of the Second Coming (it was kind of scary!). Currently, I see a general reference to the Second Coming but no detailed discussions of it. (At least not in the meetings I attend). My personal position is that there will probably be a Second Coming but I wonder if it will be like the First. The Jews expected Christ to come and vanquish their enemies in a warlike, immediate manner. And that didn’t happen. Perhaps the Second Coming will be similar…an expectation of violence and glory that will not be met. Christ may come in a subtler, quieter fashion. No scriptural or doctrinal basis for that. Just my own thoughts. I love the doctrine of a millennium (peace and prosperity for all). I would like to see humanity make progress towards this goal. I believe that humanity has made significant progress in the past. What can we see around us? * Clear attempts to move towards one world government, and thus a global ruler.
* Near total surveillance largely achieved in.many places.
* Decline in religion in the developed world.
* Moves to abolish cash.
Many of these things are happening but our rulers do not like to publicize it.
I don’t know if I believe in a second coming or not. It’s been coming soon for 2000 years, but I don’t know how long soon is. As someone else pointed out, the Q15 seem to talk about it a lot less now than even 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that’s a clue that it doesn’t really matter (just my own opinion). I’m going to chose to continue to try to be kind to everyone and not worry about if that’s because the second coming is nigh or because by doing so I will earn a heavenly reward. I’m doing it because I think it’s the right thing to do. FWIW, I am open to the idea that the second coming may have already happened, and/or that it isn’t anything like what is described in the Bible or BoM.
Great discussion. I take the maybe, but I doubt it approach of others on this thread. I also think it could be understood a few different ways and I highly doubt our traditional notions of a literal Second Coming at the end of a great battle will play out. Here are some of my reasons: 1. I think a lot of the New Testament reflects an idea that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent. We also tend to downplay it, but make no mistake, our work in Jackson County was about preparing for the Second Coming that was supposed to happen right then, not in 200 years. People thought the Civil War was the great battle that would usher in the Second Coming and in the 1980s it seemed like we heard about it a lot. For me, this points to a very human tendency to plan for a future event that will change the world and save us from our current state of existence instead of facing reality and working with what we’ve got.
2. I think there is a very good argument to be made that when Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God and alludes to things we interpret as the Second Coming, this is a part of his larger mission that has to do with radically changing the status quo and establishing a new order of things. This hasn’t happened yet and can happen when people decide to live the right way and adopt his teachings, changing the power structures and setting up an equal social order (what we would think of as Zion or the Millenium). This could be a Second Coming of the teachings of Jesus and salvation for the human race in a very real way, but not in the way we traditionally expect.
3. As humans, we learn and relate by stories, which have a beginning and end. The OT (and our LDS doctrine) set out clear, simple, doctrinal narratives of the beginning that explain how humans fell from a divine state into a carnal one, the need for a Savior and why there is suffering. The final chapter brings all of this together in a final judgment where people will recon for their good and bad deeds and everything will be made right. These narratives put order in the world and explain our place in them. I think they don’t hold up to scrutiny to be literal events, but teach powerful truths and help us navigate life and find meaning in it.
The only real harm I see is when people make big life decisions based on an expectation that the Second Coming is imminent (quitting their jobs, etc.). I also think that prepping can become an obsession, which is OK, I just think it’s too bad when people spend their energy and money on getting ready for the apocalypse when they could be spending that money on improving their lives here and now. But, I think it gives some people a lot of comfort and helps them put order in an unsure and scary world, which is OK too.
felixfabulous wrote:
The only real harm I see is when people make big life decisions based on an expectation that the Second Coming is imminent (quitting their jobs, etc.). I also think that prepping can become an obsession
Have I mentioned how much I love President Packer’s statement on the millennium?
Quote:“Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.”
Roy, that is a great quote and a great point. Prepping in itself is a good thing when not taken to extremes. My income fluctuates so food storage has helped me through lean times. felixfabulous wrote:
The only real harm I see is when people make big life decisions based on an expectation that the Second Coming is imminent (quitting their jobs, etc.). I also think that prepping can become an obsession.
In my time in Utah, I noticed there are entire industries dedicated to prepping. Sure, they’re everywhere, but the seem much more present in Utah. I even remember once, just for fun, attending “Prepper Con” with my wife. People really went over the top. I remember my wife remarking how people were taking joy in, and practically wishing for the end of the world. I thought it was pretty messed up at the time, how much the end of the world seemed to excite everyone.
But I just had a thought about this. Maybe obsessing over the end of the world, as we so often do with the Second Coming, is actually therapeutic? Because the world is going to end. You might even say it’s already ended a hundred times over; Houses crumble, people die. Nations, cultures, just about everything either gets destroyed, or is changed beyond recognition. It’s a hard fact we have to come to terms with. But I think in prepping or obsessing over the second coming, helps us to come to terms. Should the world end, we’ll be okay. Instead of being in fear, and dreading the eventual “end of life as we know it”, they can come to terms with it, and accept it. It can be exciting or even fun.
I don’t believe in the biblical second coming. I think prepping can be a little over-the-top. But I understand why people are fascinated by the end of the world. I think it’s a very good, cathartic “obsession”, which really helps people come to terms with life, and have the courage to push on through. Maybe some people need to believe in the second coming? Maybe it’s a good thing?
Quote:Maybe some people need to believe in the second coming? Maybe it’s a good thing?
really good point!
They were looking ahead with hope for the Messiah.
Since then they look for his return. Even in NT times right after he died they expected his return was going to be anytime, a generation or two.
Maybe the human mind needs something finite to help motivate us.
I’m with dande on this.
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