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Just fyi: Budget allocations are based off of Sacrament Meeting attendance and YM/YW attendance and Primary attendance, with different figures for each type of member – the YM and YW figure being the same but the highest of the three groups. (It’s a myth that “The Church” funds YM at a higher rate than YW. That difference is due totally to Scouting extras. Remove Scouting, with which I wouldn’t argue, and the funds are exactly the same.) Thus, wards with the same Sacrament Meeting attendance can have different budgets, based on the demographic composition of the wards.
I REALLY like this distinction, personally.
Establishing new wards and branches is based on attendance and number of Melchizedek Priesthood holders, primarily.
Where temples are built is based on temple attendance and tithe payer percentage (NOT amount), since tithing pays for temples and is the only “objective” indicator of who is eligible to attend the temple in between renewal dates.
Orson wrote:I wonder if everyone paid electronically directly to Salt Lake if the bishop would have any information on what was being paid — other than the Tithing Settlement declarations.
This is an interesting question, and the answer is no, they wouldn’t know what is being paid. (We pay directly via stock transfer to church HQ). I have heard of a few local bishops being uncomfortable with the not knowing, but I say that’s their problem. I’ve never personally encountered any attitude from a bishop for paying directly to HQ. I think the practice of paying directly to HQ is more prominent in affluent wards (the affluent are a tax-savvy bunch).
Quote:cwald wrote, I can’t imagine the Dalia Lama going to hell anytime soon. Just my opinion.
I wasn’t saying that the Dali Lama, Buddha, or Mohammed were going to hell. I’m just saying that the only truly righteous person was Jesus Christ. The Dali Lama more than likely will be saved, just like an apostle has stated that Mother Teresa will be saved (General Conference 2009). Doctrinally speaking (section 76 Doctrine and Covenants), everyone will be saved except the sons of perdition. A testimony/belief in Christ is prerequisite for both the terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms. Such inheritors of the Telesital kingdom experience hell for a thousand years, because of grave unrepentant sins, and they either deny Christ or don’t accept him/believe in him, yet they will be given a Kingdom of Glory that surpasses all human understanding in the Telestial Kingdom. I think that the Dali Lama has already accepted many of the teachings of Christ and probably realizes that Christ is the Son of God and even a Savior, but he probably is confused like Joseph Smith was, so he would rather just lead his people in the teachings of Buddha, which contain many important truths such as self-governance, six stages of suffering, and pre-mortal existence. I wish I could mediate and fast like Buddhists do, they are very spiritual people especially those who believe in Nicheren Buddhism-that prohibits idolatry (No fat Buddhas in their shrines). I have been to one of their meetings and in a sense felt very spiritually enlightened and hoped that their chant for world peace would make a difference. I know it gave me peace of mind and clarity. I have been to the Buddhist temple in Hacienda Heights, California on multiple occasions when I lived in the LA area. I enjoyed the grounds; there is much peace and tranquility there. The only things that bothered me were the multiple statues of Buddha that people bowed to, and some of the incense caused my eyes to water.
. I think that the Dali Lama has already accepted many of the teachings of Christ and probably realizes that Christ is the Son of God and even a Savior, but he probably is confused like Joseph Smith was, Jamison, can you give me a reference that points to this assumption?
I’m curious,
CG
jamison wrote:… I’m just saying that the only truly righteous person was Jesus Christ. The Dali Lama more than likely will be saved,… A testimony/belief in Christ is prerequisite for both the terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms. Such inheritors of the Telesital kingdom experience hell for a thousand years, because of grave unrepentant sins, and they either deny Christ or don’t accept him/believe in him, yet they will be given a Kingdom of Glory that surpasses all human understanding in the Telestial Kingdom. I think that the Dali Lama has already accepted many of the teachings of Christ and probably realizes that Christ is the Son of God and even a Savior, but he probably is confused ….
Oh please, you have to be kidding me.
This is exactly why I struggle with church and orthodox mormonism. So, the Dalia Lama, PROBABLY one of the most “CHRIST LIKE” persons on the earth today, will get stuck in the Terrestrial Kingdom if/because he doesn’t accept “Jesus Christ” and get baptized and temple married in the next life. Yet some average Joe LDS member who has gone through the temple endowment, goes to church every week, and lived the “LAW” his entire life in stage 3 thinking will make it to the Celestial Kingdom because he believes in Jesus Christ.
jamison my friend, you are killer me here.
Yes cwald, you have found me in a conundrum, I guess I will personally advocate for the Dali Lama in the next life, and anyone else who will may assist me (if of course we are saved as well). Once he passes on, I wonder how many LDS people will run and do his temple work, much like how Bob Marley’s, Abraham Lincoln’s, and Elvis Presley’s temple work has been done. But, would the Dali Lama accept it in the next life? I guess we both should have asked President Gordon B. Hinckley. President Hinckley in fact visited with the Dali Lama. Well, I guess it is too bad that President Hinckley passed away without us having the chance to ask him if the Dali Lama is a righteous person, and would be saved in the hereafter. Nevertheless, we do have this rubric to follow from the Book of Mormon: “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to everyman, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thingwhich inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.” (Moroni 7:16) I also like verse 5 of the same chapter: “. . . by their works ye shall know them; for it their works be good, then they are good also. As far as I’m concerned the Dali Lama’s works are good. He lived in a land of Tibet that was encroached upon much like Jesus’ Jerusalem had been throughout history. The Dali Lama had to go into exile into India, a land that is only 3% Christian. The Dali Lama has done much good in the world and such good will be accounted “unto him as righteousness.” Yes, I believe the Dali Lama is a righteous man. jamison wrote:…President Hinckley in fact visited with the Dali Lama.
Really! I did not know this. Did he share ANY details of his visit that you are aware of?
I have a vague memory of that meeting, but no details. “Judge not, that ye be not judged” is a wonderful principle – but in the case of the Dali Lama, I’ll go out on a limb and say that my “judgment” is that he will be ushered to the front of heaven’s waiting line the instant he dies – and that many of those we honor as prophets will bow, welcome him into their company and call him blessed.
:clap: They also probably will thank him for taking the assignment they really didn’t want to be given.
Just my totally uninformed musings, of course – and not to taken too literally.
cwald wrote:jamison wrote:… I’m just saying that the only truly righteous person was Jesus Christ. The Dali Lama more than likely will be saved,… A testimony/belief in Christ is prerequisite for both the terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms. Such inheritors of the Telesital kingdom experience hell for a thousand years, because of grave unrepentant sins, and they either deny Christ or don’t accept him/believe in him, yet they will be given a Kingdom of Glory that surpasses all human understanding in the Telestial Kingdom. I think that the Dali Lama has already accepted many of the teachings of Christ and probably realizes that Christ is the Son of God and even a Savior, but he probably is confused ….
Oh please, you have to be kidding me.
This is exactly why I struggle with church and orthodox mormonism. So, the Dalia Lama, PROBABLY one of the most “CHRIST LIKE” persons on the earth today, will get stuck in the Terrestrial Kingdom if/because he doesn’t accept “Jesus Christ” and get baptized and temple married in the next life. Yet some average Joe LDS member who has gone through the temple endowment, goes to church every week, and lived the “LAW” his entire life in stage 3 thinking will make it to the Celestial Kingdom because he believes in Jesus Christ.
jamison my friend, you are killer me here.
Maybe it is we that will have to accept the Dalia Lama in the next life. We so often think Of Jesus Christ as a universal figure but in reality the majority of the world still does not adhere to that belief, so who is to say they are not correct. Personally I do not know. That is the struggle I have with the church and Christianity in general. YOu have this belief that you must accept Jesus Christ in this life or suffer the consequenses. Yet you are not given any real tangible evidence that that is the correct thing to do. All you got is some old scripture and a bunch of people sometimes crazy peaple telling you that is what you have to do. If belief was so criticaI think it would be more obvious, unless God is a trickster God and he wants to mess me up.
Again th is goes back to the original question. Mormonism seems to teach ultimately that God only helps or saves the righteous who adhere to some kind of moral standard predefined by them, such as belief in Jesus Christ.
Cadence wrote:
Maybe it is we that will have to accept the Dalia Lama in the next life. We so often think Of Jesus Christ as a universal figure but in reality the majority of the world still does not adhere to that belief, so who is to say they are not correct. Personally I do not know. That is the struggle I have with the church and Christianity in general.YOu have this belief that you must accept Jesus Christ in this life or suffer the consequenses. Yet you are not given any real tangible evidence that that is the correct thing to do. All you got is some old scripture and a bunch of people sometimes crazy peaple telling you that is what you have to do. If belief was so criticaI think it would be more obvious, unless God is a trickster God and he wants to mess me up.Again th is goes back to the original question. Mormonism seems to teach ultimately that God only helps or saves the righteous who adhere to some kind of moral standard predefined by them, such as belief in Jesus Christ.
I struggle with this as well. I just don’t understand why we are supposed to base everything on feelings that we have when those feelings have gotten me in trouble in the past.
…Maybe it is we that will have to accept the Dalia Lama in the next life. We so often think Of Jesus Christ as a universal figure but in reality the majority of the world still does not adhere to that belief, so who is to say they are not correct. Personally
I do not know. That is the struggle I have with the church and Christianity in general. YOu have this belief that you must accept Jesus Christ in this life or suffer the consequenses.Yet you are not given any real tangible evidence that that is the correct thing to do. All you got is some old scripture and a bunch of people sometimes crazy peaple telling you that is what you have to do. If belief was so criticaI think it would be more obvious, unless God is a trickster God and he wants to mess me up…Again th is goes back to the original question. Mormonism seems to teach ultimately that God only helps or saves the righteous who adhere to some kind of moral standard predefined by them, such as belief in Jesus Christ. I agree that no one should feel compelled or required to believe anything when it comes to religion. However, my take on this is that I don’t really understand why anyone wouldn’t want to believe in Christianity at least as far as the general idea of it. Think about it, the resurrection gives people hope of an afterlife. The two primary commandments of loving God and your neighbor are not unreasonably harsh or unrealistic and even if you mess up and sin you can be forgiven. Faith, hope, and charity often make people happier and healthier in this life than they would be otherwise in many cases and personally I can’t think of anything more depressing than nihilism.
To me Christianity is all “good news” with very little downside in most cases. The main reasons I can think of that people would reject these ideas are selfishness and/or they just don’t believe it so they feel like there’s no point in pretending to believe or hold out hope anymore. These reasons for dismissing Christianity don’t really work for me and I just don’t see any suggested alternative belief system that is clearly better or more compelling as far as I’m concerned.
Other than that many of the problems people have with Christianity are mostly a by-product of inevitable imperfections in organized religion, fanaticism, extreme literal interpretation of the Bible, etc. rather than fundamental problems with the general idea of what Christ, Paul, etc. were trying to teach. In other words, Mormonism and Christianity are not necessarily the same thing at all and I don’t think it’s really fair to judge Jesus and Christianity based mostly on our own experience in the Church because we have a very specific and narrow interpretation about what all this is supposed to mean and there are many different ways the same information can be interpreted.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:… However, my take on this is that I don’t really understand why anyone wouldn’t want to believe in Christianity at least as far as the general idea of it. Think about it, the
resurrectiongives people hope of an afterlife. The two primary commandments of loving God and your neighborare not unreasonably harsh or unrealistic and even if you mess up and sin you can be forgiven. Faith, hope, and charityoften make people happier and healthier in this life than they would be otherwise in many cases and personally I can’t imagine anything more depressing than nihilism… Yes, that is true, but, well, I personally don’t see how any of this has do with Christ. I am by no means an expert, but I think one can get the same benefits from Buddhism?
I have no problem with the Good News, and the concepts of Christianity either – I just don’t know why one would insist that you have to believe in CHRIST to get the benefits of “Christianity.”
It seems to me to be more of an ego thing?
Actually yes it is. To follow Christ, IMHO is to let go of your ego Buddhist style. If you haven’t, you’re not. I think you’re probably mistaking people who claim to for those who do!!! (Lots of the former around, few of the latter) SamBee wrote:Actually yes it is. To follow Christ, IMHO is to let go of your ego Buddhist style.
If you haven’t, you’re not. I think you’re probably mistaking people who claim to for those who do!!! (Lots of the former around, few of the latter)I’m not following you. What do you mean.
cwald wrote:DevilsAdvocate wrote:… However, my take on this is that I don’t really understand why anyone wouldn’t want to believe in Christianity at least as far as the general idea of it. Think about it, the
resurrectiongives people hope of an afterlife. The two primary commandments of loving God and your neighborare not unreasonably harsh or unrealistic and even if you mess up and sin you can be forgiven. Faith, hope, and charityoften make people happier and healthier in this life than they would be otherwise in many cases and personally I can’t imagine anything more depressing than nihilism… Yes, that is true, but, well, I personally don’t see how any of this has do with Christ. I am by no means an expert, but
I think one can get the same benefits from Buddhism?I have no problem with the Good News, and the concepts of Christianity either – I just don’t know why one would insist that you have to believe in CHRIST to get the benefits of “Christianity.”
It seems to me to be more of an ego thing?
I don’t know that much about Buddhism but from what little I have read it definitely looks more harsh to me than basic Christianity as if the really “good” practicing Buddhists would have to be ascetic monks, vegetarian, etc. and I just don’t know about the idea that life is mostly suffering and an illusion that we want to escape from. Also, it doesn’t look to me like Buddhism and Christianity are completely incompatible and it seems like people could easily incorporate some general ideas from both without necessarily having to choose one or the other. I understand that Buddhism and other Eastern religions sound interesting to some people because they are exotic and different but I just don’t believe in it as the be-all-end-all and I personally like Christianity more not to say that everyone else should feel the same way.
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