Does it get easier to walk the NOM path?

[Anonymous]

I find myself sliding in between Orthodox and unorthodox belief. in priesthood session, I found that I began to have the feelings of the Spirit uplift me so much. I was so inspired by some of the talks and I loved being around other people that I knew we’re just trying to be better men and better people.

My problem is that as usual the next day or perhaps as early as an hour or so after the event I begin to question myself and what I feel about the church.

I am deeply frustrated because I am finding that any position whether it is atheism or Mormonism or any kind of ism at all likely has some kind of intelligent argument against it. so no matter what I do there will be some group that will look at me as deceived and foolish. there seems to be no certainty that I am NOT being deceived or deluded.

I do not want to practice a face halfway honestly. I enjoyed the Unitarian Universalist Church because of the community but so many things about it at this time are unfulfilling.

To put this in another way I sometimes feel as if there are two different drivers that are driving the bus of my mind. on one hand is a more Church minded driver that during church or at special times seems to be more Orthodox. this other driver is very skeptical and does not trust anything to be absolute and questions authority without even trying to

I am also very scared I am scared because I wonder if I will ever fit in to any ward anymore as a very soon to be divorced single man with children that is 32 going on 33 outside of Utah, the prospect of trying to find someone who is not only a latter day Saint but is also open enough to accept and love someone who is unorthodox seems to be an impossible task.

I have tried to walk away from the church and in the end that may be what I have to do but yet in so many ways I simply do not want to. it is as if my spirit says go to this place but yet I am also afraid of being wrong and foolish because the arguments against the church are so strong. it’s not that the church is in the force of good it’s simply because its history shows it to have many issues which strain its credibility as being the one true church.

[Anonymous]

There probably is no yes or no answer to your question. I can say that yes, it is easier to walk the middle way after doing it for awhile. Easier doesn’t mean easy, though. Part of what has made it easier for me is deciding what I do (and to some extent don’t) believe. Since what I do believe are basic Christian principles, I can focus on those things and ignore much of the rest. I’m not sure that works for everyone.

FWIW, I don’t consider myself a NOM. I’m just a plain old Mormon. While I do welcome the changes I have seen lately in the church, I don’t expect change or openly advocate for change. Also, little of my activity has to do with the culture of Mormonism. Others probably see me as at least a somewhat cultural Mormon, and deep inside they might be right – but I could walk away from most of the cultural practices (and I know that because I have).

[Anonymous]

Jorsen wrote:

So no matter what I do there will be some group that will look at me as deceived and foolish.

Who cares what judgmental people think? It is between you and the Lord.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. Do take care of yourself. As much as you can, do something that you enjoy. If you have a hobby of flying R/C planes – do a bunch of that. Whatever makes you a bit happy.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Dark Jedi (second time this day!)… I don’t brand myself a NOM, although maybe I am in certain ways. I keep the WoW, but am probably slacker on some other things, and disagree with some others.

[Anonymous]

I also don’t consider myself to be a NOM. I am me; I am Christian; I am Mormon; I am my own version of all of those things. I’ve learned to be okay with that – and with others being their own versions of all of those things (and other things).

I don’t mean this to be flippant in any way, but it gets easier to walk your own path the longer you walk it. FWIW, I don’t see my path as outside any other path; I like to see every person as walking his or her own path alongside everyone else doing the same thing. As long as those people are trying to walk a path that makes them the best people they can be, whether or not they would describe their own paths as an attempt to walk with God in some way, I am totally cool with that. After all, “according to the dictates of their own conscience” and all that jazz.

God bless you as you find and walk your own path. As one of my favorite sayings goes:

Quote:

May there be a road.

[Anonymous]

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I am also very scared I am scared because I wonder if I will ever fit in to any ward anymore as a very soon to be divorced single man with children that is 32 going on 33 outside of Utah,

Don’t worry about being judged. Just go and be friendly. I do see that momentary discomfort when someone single introduces himself and people ask about the wife. Just say you’re divorced and move on. Any ward worth its salt is going to be friendly and not really care. We tend to think we are the center of attention, but people really aren’t clucking their tongues that much.

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the prospect of trying to find someone who is not only a latter day Saint but is also open enough to accept and love someone who is unorthodox seems to be an impossible task.

It’s getting easier all the time, and it might be easier than you think, but I would also say don’t limit yourself to Mormon women if you find someone who is otherwise like-minded.

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I have tried to walk away from the church and in the end that may be what I have to do but yet in so many ways I simply do not want to. it is as if my spirit says go to this place but yet I am also afraid of being wrong and foolish because the arguments against the church are so strong. it’s not that the church is in the force of good it’s simply because its history shows it to have many issues which strain its credibility as being the one true church.

I think this is the core debate that people need to learn to let go of. If we are that concerned about being right all the time, we’ll never do anything. Good becomes the enemy of perfect, and the church is absolutely not perfect. We stay citizens of the US despite it not being right all the time and having ugly patches to its history. We work for companies that try to deliver on their promises but sometimes fail. Ultimately, being hung up on the church being the one true church is about our own insecurity. As you said, we don’t want to look foolish if the church isn’t what it claims to be. I’ll just say that “what it claims to be” isn’t what it claims to be, and all people look foolish to somebody.

As your confidence increases, as you own your choices, you’ll feel more comfortable on your path. And like others above, I don’t consider myself NOM. NOMs are fine, but Mormon is a broad enough label for us all and there is no “one path,” despite what people will tell you. Every person’s life has its own path. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling a guide map, and believe me, there are plenty doing that both in and out of the church.

[Anonymous]

I finally found a measure of peace when I stopped trying to find a label for who I was. No label does me justice. I still fall into my old trappings and become discouraged by feelings of not fitting in from time to time.

Well if you had to label me as an -ism put me down under Popeyeism. I yam what I yam. Joke aside, I like spending a little time being comfortable being me. That’s not to say that I feel like I’m perfect or that I’m absolved of changing for the better. It just means I can try to accept my uniqueness and not beat myself up too bad over never finding a herd with similar spots. People may point and what’s worse, I even have to guard against the people that point that only exist in my mind.

I do like the I am what I am approach though. Before Abraham was, I yam. 😈

Jorsen wrote:

To put this in another way I sometimes feel as if there are two different drivers that are driving the bus of my mind. on one hand is a more Church minded driver that during church or at special times seems to be more Orthodox. this other driver is very skeptical and does not trust anything to be absolute and questions authority without even trying to

Like a driver’s ed car that has a brake on the passengers side. Sliding between orthodox and unorthodox is a good place in my opinion… I just make sure that whoever isn’t currently driving is in the passenger seat so they can pump the brakes if necessary.

Jorsen wrote:

I am also very scared I am scared because I wonder if I will ever fit in to any ward anymore as a very soon to be divorced single man with children that is 32 going on 33 outside of Utah, the prospect of trying to find someone who is not only a latter day Saint but is also open enough to accept and love someone who is unorthodox seems to be an impossible task.

I don’t have your particular set of challenges but I understand the sentiment. I don’t feel like I fit but for different reasons. I’m currently alone in a crowd in my ward, I attend all the meetings like the best of them but I have no calling, I feel pretty useless. My fear is what the “nothing to lose nibbler” will say one Sunday. Nah, I know myself. I’ve heard wonderful, loving messages shared by people here and even in this most recent general conference and I know that the way to participate is to come from a place of profound love… I just can’t think of the words when put on the spot so more often than not I remain silent.

Jorsen wrote:

I am deeply frustrated because I am finding that any position whether it is atheism or Mormonism or any kind of ism at all likely has some kind of intelligent argument against it. so no matter what I do there will be some group that will look at me as deceived and foolish. there seems to be no certainty that I am NOT being deceived or deluded.

I know. Isn’t it wonderful!

That’s a bad joke but I think it’s also true for me. Those feelings really, really stung initially – like my whole world was coming to an end. Now I find comfort in the uncertainty. If I’m resigned to being deceived or deluded at least I want to be the one that’s doing it, self delusion.

Some time ago cwald posted:

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Sometimes we need to quit worrying about what makes the river flow, and simply become the water.

[Anonymous]

I feel your pain.

I would not call myself a NOM.

At the request of family, I no longer claim or pretend to be Mormon… at all.

It is a liberating feeling actually. .. now i can just be.

I consider myself to be a humanist. I consider myself to be a Pantheist which is basically an atheist on steroids.

I do not attend Mormon meetings or talk much about my disdain for the harm caused by religion out of respect for some friends and family members

[Anonymous]

I also wouldn’t label myself as a NOM. But I suppose that is neither here nor there. ^^

I adjust very quickly to situations, so going at Mormonism the middle way is actually more freeing to me, since it’s given me the OK to change my views on things at a moment’s notice and be just fine with it. I still find myself wondering about the “truth” of things and being worried that I somehow have it wrong and the Church is 100% “the one and only way,” but I’ve started taking the stance my older sister has: if the God we believe in is truly just and forgiving and understanding, then He won’t make it matter what we believe or do so long as we try to do our best with what we have and love others. If God turns out to be as bitter and destructive as some others believe, the type of being who would sentence you to eternal punishment over not choosing the absolute “right” pile of questions, then I guess that’s my lot, and I’m not too interested in following that type of God anyway. Either way, we’ll all get to the end of life eventually, and I’d rather have lived a good life focusing more on peace and happiness rather than confusion and misery getting there.

Out of curiosity, why do you worry so much about people perceiving you as being deceived or foolish? Do they hold some sort of sway over your job or any sort of religious ordinances or those sorts of things? I ask that knowing myself and knowing that I’ve caught myself a few times trying to “explain” myself to others with the worry that they might think I’m “just another one of those crazy Utah Mormons who thinks everything is perfect.” It’s gotten easier to shut myself up, though, and stop caring what other people think of my beliefs.

Anyway, I suppose I’ve found the middle way easier by acknowledging that perfectionism as most people see it is having no fault, the basis of which is determined by the society you live in and its resulting values. I stopped looking at things from that lens and started looking at perfect (i.e. true or what have you) as something that is unique to each person and each situation, and it’s not to me to judge it for someone else, just for me. I suppose I also have a healthy combination of spiritualism and scientific logic that makes it so those intelligent arguments don’t really throw me off. They just let me adapt my beliefs accordingly. And that’s made it quite peaceful here in my middle way.

At any right, I see a lot of black and white, all wrong or all right thoughts in your main post. It’s a very standard and common thought process in the Mormon and many other religious cultures, but it also does make it a lot more difficult to go the middle way where we’re mostly and probably more comfortably in the grey.

[Anonymous]

Jorsen wrote:

I am also very scared I am scared because I wonder if I will ever fit in to any ward anymore as a very soon to be divorced single man with children that is 32 going on 33 outside of Utah, the prospect of trying to find someone who is not only a latter day Saint but is also open enough to accept and love someone who is unorthodox seems to be an impossible task.

I am sorry about your divorce. I personally deal with the not fitting in part by participating in various groups and churches. I do not fit in perfectly with any of them but that is ok. I am myself regardless of what group I am with and that is ok. Many groups seem to value me for the unique things that I can contribute. I also have plenty of options for getting my social needs met. I might also second the recommendation not to limit yourself to LDS girls. When it comes to a companion and partner there are many other things to consider besides religious affiliation.

Jorsen wrote:

I am deeply frustrated because I am finding that any position whether it is atheism or Mormonism or any kind of ism at all likely has some kind of intelligent argument against it. so no matter what I do there will be some group that will look at me as deceived and foolish. there seems to be no certainty that I am NOT being deceived or deluded.

I am thinking about the new LDS video about temple garments. Jews have yamikas, monks have robes, Mormons have special cotton undergarments. All of these groups could be portrayed as foolish by people intent on doing so. In some respects we probably are foolish and shouldn’t take ourself quite so seriously. But as you have discovered, humanity is all in the same boat on this one. Pres. Uchtdorf had mentioned the saying “Don’t judge me because I sin differently than you.” We might alter this to say “Don’t judge me because my foolishness is different than yours.”

Jorsen wrote:

it is as if my spirit says go to this place but yet I am also afraid of being wrong and foolish because the arguments against the church are so strong. it’s not that the church is in the force of good it’s simply because its history shows it to have many issues which strain its credibility as being the one true church.

I recommend owning up to the foolishness. Acknowledge that what you have is not a logical, linear, proof, equation, one size fits all, follow the steps and everything will work out fine experience. Allow yourself to be you and what feels right to you even if that is not perfect for everyone else. Consider that what is best for you might be just plain wrong for somebody else.

Finally, yes it does get easier. The more comfortable/confident you grow in the path of your life the easier it will be to walk it. I believe part of this comes from living in a way that matches your values and beliefs in a positive way.

[Anonymous]

First off, thank you everyone for your kindness and support, you help me feel less crazy and more normal.

I suppose I must be one of those people who evidently deep down prefer to “feel” in my gut ‘truth’. The black and white thinking is strong in me but I am trying to change my thinking but it is painful at times.

I seem to have inherited this idea that if I don’t find the truth and stick with it I am some sort of failure. This has become distressing as any point of view it seems can be intelligently defended.

I am more of an agnostic in practice yet that is not the whole story of who I am. When I sit and talk with religious people I feel religious and often feel something deep within me being satisfied. This deep yearning is obviously important to me. I need to find a way to satisfy this without destroying my brain in the process by doing something completely unreasonable. The LDS church has some excellent arguments for itself that are very logically appealing to me.

I guess I like both sides as weird as it sounds…it’s almost as if my soul is divided into two halves…the orthodox and the unorthodox.

I don’t have any particular group pressing me to do this or that. I live in central Florida in an area that is predominately non-Mormon. I think most of my pressure comes from within myself.

It’s probably a mixture of things. Getting over the fact I am divorced and alone. I try to spend as much time as I can with my kids but I am forced into a situation where I need to find myself…whatever that is.

My father died a few weeks ago…it has been traumatic and has caused me to try and reconsider spiritual matters more closely. It often feels like trying to fall asleep…the harder I try the worse it gets…like trying to tightly keep sand in my hands meanwhile it seeps out slowly.

I have always tried to be a virtuous person even before I was a Mormon. So much of myself I see in this church. I also love the buildings and the hymns and the temples are so beautiful and help me connect to the divine.

Maybe I just need some more time to heal and recover. I really appreciate this community being so kind and welcoming.

I just want to be happy…and focusing on Christ helps me do that for a little while…until part of my brain kicks in that remembers what’s I have read that suggests that he may not have existed at all and then my world beings to spiral outward into uncertainty and doubt. From this comes a tired melancholy that seems to sweep over me. A tired reflection of uncertainty that seems to sap the vitality of the day and leaves me weary and needing to sit down.

I press onward hoping to find the truth but I often find only uncertainty. The sirens song of absolute truth and knowledge is seductive to me right now…it brings a burning inside my chest that has been dormant for years yet it still a vital part of my soul.

When that fire cools and deminishes though I am left in the smoldering embers feelings of doubt and fear about what is really true and what is not. But maybe it’s understandable that I feel this way being raised in such a black and white way of thinking. There was such comfort and security in that type of thinking…it seems seductive to me even after all these years.

I can fall into it for a little while with almost child like enthusiasm, but eventually I will calm down and I will think more clearly and I will wonder what I really believe.

[Anonymous]

First, my father passed away in Sept. 2013, almost exactly 18 months ago. God bless you as you deal with that in your own life.

Second, I absolutely love “both/and” – much more than “either/or”.

Life is paradox in many ways, and we are told that “there must needs be opposition in ALL things”. Learning to accept, embrace and actually value that idea, in its totality and comprehensiveness, can be liberating. It means WE can have oppositional elements within ourselves and be just fine – and even “righteous” (right with God).

[Anonymous]

Jorsen wrote:

I press onward hoping to find the truth but I often find only uncertainty. The sirens song of absolute truth and knowledge is seductive to me right now…it brings a burning inside my chest that has been dormant for years yet it still a vital part of my soul.

I think i get it. Much of the power of the LDS church is gone for me because I do not believe the exclusive truth/authority claims. I have some good SDA friends and see much good in their church but I am somewhat indifferent to the Sabbath is Saturday thing (in some ways they are too similar to Mormons in ways that turn me off). But the community seems so close and caring it can be alluring. I participate in an “Assembly of God” church and I enjoy the worshipful singing and the praise through music. The church family is so accepting of differences and the programs are excellent. I somewhat wish that I could give myself over wholeheartedly to the concept of being saved by grace, of the historical Jesus as God become man, of bible inerrancy to help us know exactly “more or less” what we are supposed to believe.

That does not seem to be my lot in life. My journey of recognizing both good and bad in all walks of life precludes me from the comfort of exclusiveness.

In some ways I cannot fully experience these different walks of life because I connot fully and exclusively commit to them.

[Anonymous]

Jorsen, you’re a good soul.

I can hear you maturing in your words. Your fears of what others think can be overcome with good works and with maturity to realize you’re not the only one.

Your emerging from the “one true church” mentality that did not work for you in the past. Don’t try to go back to it, just like trying to go back to high school won’t work either.

Move forward. Believe in yourself. Let your soul and heart be your pilot. Allow yourself to enter a new chapter and know it is ok, perhaps even God’s will.

Dating will be hard. Some women you will find will judge you and not accept you for your doubts and universal thinking. That’s ok. They are not the ones for you. But there are many others going through faith questions and it is not crazy to think you can find someone else who thinks like you and accepts you for who you are, not who they want you to be. When you find one that knows your heart and loves you for it, that will be when it will feel safe to start another relationship. No rushing it. But you need to believe you are worth it. You are.

[Anonymous]

I’m finding it very easy lately — once I set boundaries, and found my wife wouldn’t leave me for being not as committed, and then got my service mojo from the community, things fell into place. I feel much happier.

For you, the part that I would struggle with is finding a mate being NOM. I think, with only 1/3 of the members active, if there was some way of connecting with other Mormons who want cultural and a certain level of belief in the church, but who want to have a relationship with another Mormon, that would help, but I don’t know of one.

That part would bother me….but remember this — I’ve heard a number of men here say that after they “came out” to their wives, they were surprised at the support they received — often others feel the same way but just aren’t bold enough to say it. I would hope for someone like that…

[Author]

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