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So in my attempt to ‘staylds’ and become re-engaged with the church, I am getting bothered by Tithing. So I am not at all comfortable with the lack of transparency in the church finances, I don’t agree with what they appear to spend their money on (and what the *don’t* spend it on). The whole city creek mall, and nice houses in Hawaii, all really irk me.
On the other hand, I want to pay my way, I am not a freeloader, and don’t want to take advantage. I sit in a building that needs heat, and power, etc. I attend activities where I get fed and things are spent. I am thinking I could say that instead of paying tithing I just pay for some of the activities, my wife often goes out for food supplies and gets re-imbursed from the ward. So it would just not ask for the re-imbursment.
What do others do???
Tithing is up to personal discretion. Myself, I pay my essential utility bills, then pay my tithing. If you don’t want to pay the full wack to the church, also consider giving it to worthy causes. (Plenty of charities support unworthy causes, but that’s by the by. Animal charities for example have more money than they’ll ever actually need.) I agree the church does not deserve your money based on their lack of transparency. I also agree you should pay your way. So just pay what you think it takes to cover your expenses by attending. Maybe throw in a little extra just for good measure. I have no problem with calling that a full tithing. i see tithing as 10% of some aspect of my income/interest. That’s one part of the personal choice. I see tithing as the sum of all my donations
So…I budget 10% of net/gross/whatever feels right, and then allocate that budget to the Church and other charitable sources as feels right as well. I agree that freeloading is unacceptable, but as well, so is donating to causes that don’t make you feel right.
To me, this is what living by the spirit is all about — tithing is a good test.
Would paying for local things directly out of my own pocket, mess up ward budgets? For example in my professional life sometimes if you don’t use all your budget, next years is often less. So if the ward is spending less because I am paying for things locally will that stop them getting their full share next time around?
I never did the Ward Clerk calling
brit-exmo wrote:Would paying for local things directly out of my own pocket, mess up ward budgets?
For example in my professional life sometimes if you don’t use all your budget, next years is often less. So if the ward is spending less because I am paying for things locally will that stop them getting their full share next time around?
I never did the Ward Clerk calling
1. they discourage using local personal funds for church events. the principle is that each ward is given a very limited local budget and they are to execute all activities within that budget. I heard Elder Packer explain it this way: if we can’t do something everywhere, we’ll do it no-where. Therefore the entire principle is consistency from ward to ward upon the least common denominator of funded activities.2. they don’t have a use or lose next year concept. each stake gets a flat amount for each person in attendance, and then the stake gives most of that budget to the wards, based upon how many people are attending.
I pay a standard tithing from my net income – the actual money I have available to spend. I also pay a very modest fast offering right now, due to my financial situation starting over again in a new field of employment, although I have made generous fast offering payments in the past and will do so again when I’m able. How you do it is up to you, but volunterring to pay for local expenses won’t hurt the budget in any way. Quite often, members who can afford to do so help in some way with local activities, local fast offering assistance, local missionary donations and other special situations. However, it won’t be seen as “tithing” in anyone’s eyes but your own, so I wouldn’t try to phrase it that way to any local leaders.
Back in July, we had an interesting discussion regarding this topic titled: TR Question Survey – Question 10a: TithingIt can be found on this link:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3390 My response at that time was:
Quote:I came up with a figure that I consider an honest tithe. I prayed about it & made my payment.
The way I figure it, if it’s wrong or dishonest, God can tell me.
I’m not being sarcastic. I want to do the right thing & I think I have.
It is the “retrotithing” that felt guilty about.
The comments on this topic have settled it for me.
Thanks everyone.
I have since gone through the TR process & feel good about my answers. My belief system is not constant. It changes over time.
I know it will on this topic it too. For today, I’m fine. (wayfarer, you remember what “fine” stands for don’t you?)
Mike from Milton.
Yeah. i’m just feeling FINE thank you. Fouled up (polite version)
Insecure
Neurotic
Egotistical (males) – Emotional (females)
I will not attend tithing settlement, and i no longer pay a 10% tithing, and will not do so until the corporate church makes a serious improvement at disclosure. I am generous with my donations to my local youth and civic groups ie FFA, little league, 4-H, scouting.
I accept the consequences of my decision… i do not have a TR, nor do I expect to get one anytime soon.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
For the time being, I feel I’ve paid my way to the church many times over . So, I interpret tithing fairly liberally right now as it pertains to what I owe the church. That’s all I’ll say about that. Also, each person needs to make a choice about the temple recommend. There are periods when I’ve had it and periods when I haven’t. Not usually driven by tithing concerns, but other concerns that make it hard to feel fully dedicated to our organization, which leads me to question the TR. And I feel that one should not “cut off one’s nose in spite of one’s face”, and there are times when my family’s financial needs are paramount, and the church’s needs are secondary. This is spawned by my belief that the church is far more of a temporal organization than a spiritual one. Far more temporal than I originally believed. So, it makes these unorthodox views more peace-inducing for me personally than if i believed everything they say about it at church.
I also include temple trips and certain other expenses within my tithing BTW. This is my first post, so here goes. I think my biggest obstacle in staying LDS post-disaffection may be tithing. The New Testament teaches, and some other churches follow, the higher law of donating to the church in 2 Corinthians 9:7: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity, for God loveth a cheerful giver.” The LDS church does not follow the New Testament, nor does it follow the Old Testament according to Joseph Smith. JST Genesis 14:39: “Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had…which God had given him more than that which he had need.” (meaning, tithing only on surplus beyond needs.) These scriptures are never preached nor mentioned in General Conference, and especially not at tithing settlement. Also, the LDS church is not a cheerful receiver of a gift less than 10%. Cheerfully give what you purpose in your heart and you will be told it is not enough, that you are a disappointment, and you will be pronounced unworthy. Why give to a church that receives a gift like that?
The church restores an Old Testament principle that has been replaced by a higher law, which in addition to cheerful giving from the heart also includes the idea of sowing sparingly and reaping sparingly, and sowing bountifully and reaping bountifully. We are back to the lower law with simple compelled numbers. Follow it or be branded unworthy.
To me, this is a great obstacle to staying long term.
Good point well made (and welcome by the way). Yes it is a problem. Both for us in general, and investigators. But it is also up to personal discretion and should be taken in conjunction with provident living. Good points, TFM, particularly if we still followed Biblical standards as binding. Officially, tithing is a lesser ideal – after the failure of the United Order and full consecration. In that sense, we already admit why we don’t follow the NT ideal (which sounds benign in the wording you shared, but which, in practical terms, when you read the general writing of the time, meant full consecration – with anything else as being due to a lack of commitment).
Some things never change.
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