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Bruce in Montana wrote:
I would like to respectfully submit that the problem with tithing is not tithing, the problem is that us darn Mormons are not living the United Order and the Law of Consecration.
Certainly, as long as there continue to be rich and poor among us then there will continue to be problems like this.
When we all progress to the point that we’re living the higher laws and have lost/conquered our selfishness, then tithing will not be a hardship on anyone. Until then, there will be these extreme social inequalities.
In this case, I am in full agreement with Bruce the fundamentalist (I knew there was a happy fundamentalist in me!). What a cure for the “prosperity gospel”. Oh, how that term makes me shiver! And yet the radical says, just go do it. You already accepted the law inside the temple, now just live it. Why change house, spouse, and pew? Just let go and quit striving. Hand over your wallet and keys and fire your broker, agent, and attorney. Stand naked in faith. At least try it once and see what happens.
Are any of us, most fundamentalists included, really ready to live like the Hutterittes? Secularism is, for the lack of a better term, a lot of fun.
I like the idea of my kids going to college so they can earn a better-than-average income. I like working hard so I can get a nicer car, a nicer house, skinnier tv, etc. I know the handicapped lady next door lives on about $700.00 per month disability but I really don’t want to think about that…I want to take my wife out to eat. I must admit that personal property is a millstone for me.
When I look at it that way and study the way the Hutterittes live….bring on the 10%
It creates a bit of cognitive dissonance on my part because I absolutely believe this is the way we are supposed to be working toward living. For the folks I know that live it, it’s not always easy. I don’t think any of us will inherit any kingdom we’re not ready for though….in other words, we don’t get to a celestial kingdom by living terrestial laws.
The simple practice of tithing certainly sets us on the way toward living higher laws though, IMHO. True, it is a lot harder on low income folks. I think everyone should follow their conscience on the matter.
I know this discussion is getting a little stale, but I was discussing it with my wife this week, and she reminded me of a couple of our experiences: 1. As Executive Secretary for two bishops and a former bishopric member, I observed several instances where large amounts of money/goods (thousands) and services were expended on people who were investigating the church, or in the process of being activated. I’m talking large ticket items; A roof was replaced, a home was completely refurbished. (Side story, the people were renters and the ward basically upgraded because the owner was unwilling to, the renters were subsequently kicked out and the owner pocketed the added value.)
2. My father-in-law, a lifetime totally active, working class, true blue, tithe paying LDS High Priest sought help from his bishop during his wife’s extended illness, an illness that eventually led to her passing. She had suffered a severe stroke and they were caught in the gap between Medicare and Medicaid regarding nursing home care. All he asked for was some stop gap financial help for a month or two while they figured things out. The answer from the bishop was an emphatic no. As background info, my father-in-law was in his late seventies, has a home that is paid for, a used automobile, and very few other assets. He lives on a small pension and social security. I know his income is low enough that he doesn’t pay taxes. His income was low enough that he couldn’t afford to incur debt and had no other savings. There were not a lot of family resources to assist either.
I guess my point is that I wish I thought that the bishops really administered offerings in a fair manner, but my life experiences are teaching me otherwise.
silentstruggle, fwiw, my own experiences are exactly opposite yours. It really is determined by the local bishops – and the VAST majority of them don’t expend large sums on investigators while ignoring faithful members. I also have a really hard time believing that the experiences you described are the norm you observed. Are you saying that? (This in not an accusatory question. It is sincere.)
No, I’m sure that most offerings are administered ethically and according to policy. I just think that there is more slipping through the cracks than most of us assume. Postscript: Neither of the families are now active to my knowledge. I guess another thing to consider is what the recipients’ motives were in showing interest in the church/activation. I guess I’m still coming to grips with my slide from stage 3!!
Yeah, those experiences would tend to remain bright in memory. Thanks for the clarification. I don’t think that anybody in Scotland thinks that if they cant pay tithing they would get any ward welfare to cover other things to enable them to keep up an honest tithe. The welfare system here is extremely tight. My only church friend ever to get ANY welfare was frog marched around Tesco ( our walmart) with the Relief society president in tow. Very few bills are ever paid. The humiliation of getting any help is so great that just about everyone I know would rather miss a months tithing than suffer it. I think the assumptions that the poor can rely on ward welfare if they cant meet the demand of tithing are completely off the mark for Europe. This is just anther example where the world wide church is at odds with the u.s church.
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