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Here’s his Saturday morning talk: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/watch/2013/10?lang=eng&vid=2721983168001&cid=12 I heard about this talk from a Ray’s comment thread but wanted to start a dedicated thread. I sat at watched this as soon as I heard about it.
Quote:
“The church provides opportunities for doing good. Believing in God is commendable but most people want to do more than listen to inspirational sermons of dream of their mansions above they want to put their faith into practice… and that is what happens when they join with us. They have many opportunities to transform their talents, compassion and time into good works.“There are some who leave the church they once loved. If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave? Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple. In fact there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations. Some of our dear members struggle for years with the question whether they should seperate themselves from the church. In this church that honours agency so strongly… we respect those that honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the church that we love… but we honour their right to worship the Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience just as we claim the privilege for ourselves.
“Some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been said or done in the past. We openly acknowledge that in nearly 200 years of Church history — along with an uninterrupted line of inspired, honorable, and divine events — there have been some things said and done that could cause people to question. Sometimes questions arise because we don’t have all the information.
“A question that creates doubt in some… can build faith in others. And to be perfectly frank there have been times in the church when members or leaders have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that have not been in harmony with our values, principles or doctrine. I suppose the church would only be perfect if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect and his doctrine is pure. But he works through us, his imperfecty children and imperfect people make mistakes.”
“Stay a little longer.”
I was smiling at parts of it. Then it got to the section that talked about the legitimacy of respecting people making choices to leave and worship and other ways, followed by the part on the issues in the history of the church and the mistakes of the past and starting crying violently. It felt like 18 months of pain and anxiety came flooding out. It was cathartic.
How could we, as middle-wayers, use and share this talk with other members who may have missed it? I suddenly feel like I want to “Hasten the Work” too. I wanted become a member missionary. Facing in not out. I want to share the best of Uchtdorf and educate the membership on the beauty of the gospel through his expression of Mormonism.
Let us all join together and follow his call to stayLDS a little longer.
mackay11, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that. Sometimes there are glimpses that the church leadership doesn’t completely have their heads in the sand. This message you quoted was inspiring, and your experiences was special. Thanks. Yes, friend, thanks for sharing this post apart from the General Conference thread. This is a message that needs to be heard, and I really believe his own target audience was the orthodox, active membership just as much as those who struggle. mackay11 wrote:Let us all join together and follow his call to stayLDS a little longer.
:clap: :clap: :clap: Today was a great day. I feel the same kind of relief I felt upon discovering StayLDS. I guess it boils down to feeling understood and accepted. I really hope
everyonetakes it to heart. A New York Times write-up from (I think?) the same journalist who did the Hans Mattsson piece:
Ann wrote:mackay11 wrote:Let us all join together and follow his call to stayLDS a little longer.
:clap: :clap: :clap: Today was a great day. I feel the same kind of relief I felt upon discovering StayLDS. I guess it boils down to feeling understood and accepted. I really hope
everyonetakes it to heart. A New York Times write-up from (I think?) the same journalist who did the Hans Mattsson piece:
Brilliant article. Thanks. I intend, in my member’s missionary mode, to share the link and the following quote on Facebook:
“To be perfectly frank there have been times in the church when members or leaders have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that have not been in harmony with our values, principles or doctrine. I suppose the church would only be perfect if it were run by perfect beings. God is perfect and his doctrine is pure. But he works through us, his imperfect children and imperfect people make mistakes.”
Now, there you have it — a “realistic job preview” for anyone thinking of joining the church, I think this admission will breed resilience and stem the flow of disillusionment some people feel when they discover the Pollyanna version of our leaders’s capabilities has not always been true in our history. And for those of us who have known this all along, and wished the church would finally step up and acknowledge that, it’s a healing experience, to some extent.
Would Uchdorf’s candid and much needed admission lead to reporters asking which mistakes he was talking about? No doubt he’ll have a decent answer as he seems capable of navigating the tricky waters of church realism and church idealism at the same time.
I’m also pleased that the bloggernacle seems to be influencing the thought leadership at high levels in the church. And I hope the thousands of posts people have made here have provided some “inspiration” to the people in a position to lead the general membership. Lead them to a kinder, gentler, more realistic and less judgmental culture — as good Christians should do anyway.
Mackay, You made my day.
I love you friend!
Cate
I am indeed still elated. I too felt a great sense of relief that there is recognition that we who are not totally orthodox do have a place, and I also let go of some years of anguish. I agree, Ray, this message needs to be heard and I think it’s up to us to make sure it is. I am going to start with my own family and campaign within my own ward and stake to do all I can to not let this message die – it needs to be among those favorite talks that have a lasting impression upon the church (like ETB’s pride talk). Wouldn’t mind a link to that talk as pride is something I don’t understand very well… mackay11 wrote:I was smiling at parts of it. Then it got to the section that talked about the legitimacy of respecting people making choices to leave and worship and other ways, followed by the part on the issues in the history of the church and the mistakes of the past and starting crying violently. It felt like 18 months of pain and anxiety came flooding out. It was cathartic.
How could we, as middle-wayers, use and share this talk with other members who may have missed it? I suddenly feel like I want to “Hasten the Work” too. I wanted become a member missionary. Facing in not out. I want to share the best of Uchtdorf and educate the membership on the beauty of the gospel through his expression of Mormonism.
Let us all join together and follow his call to stayLDS a little longer.
I felt the same way–so much relief to hear a general authority acknowledge my journey and welcome me back to the fold; that I have a place to love and serve regardless of my level of faith. I think we, as middle-wayers do need to continue to share this message of acceptance. I was discouraged when I went to facebook and Bro. Uchtdorfs talk had been repeatedly reduced to one quote, “Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.” While, I appreciate this advice from Bro. Uchtdorf, I hate to see his talk reduced to this one quote when there was so, so much more.
I always liked the pride talk. I’ve not read it since my ‘transition.’ I wonder how it will go down this time when I read it… That is sad, Martha, because you are right, there is so much more to what he is saying. I do have that fear that the general membership may not actually hear what he is saying (hearing they hear not and seeing they see not) for a few reasons, one of which is that it’s something they don’t want to hear. Another is that I think the general membership may have actually tuned him out because it seemed as though he was speaking to us, not them. That’s perfectly natural, mind you, I don’t listen to talks directed at women or youth – even though there’s probably good stuff in there I can use as well. That’s why it’s up to us to make sure the message is heard, all of it. mackay11 wrote:I always liked the pride talk. I’ve not read it since my ‘transition.’ I wonder how it will go down this time when I read it…
I always liked it, too, and likewise I hadn’t read it in years. I did reread it before posting the link, hence the warning. I still like it, but I’m not sure everyone here will. Maybe I like it because generally speaking I was not an ETB fan but this one was different from his usual form.
Martha, I agree that there’s a trend in this becoming a ‘neutered’ message on some areas of the mormon social circle. In my community I have to accept that next Sunday the 3 hours at church will be no different to last week. Most will not have watched the talk and even if they did will have tuned out the bits that cause cognitive dissonance. Of course people make mistakes, they might say (assuming the prophet occasionally eats a bit too much or acts impatiently). Many members will continue to make the same assumptions about other members with doubts or who don’t attend.
For today, I don’t care. I’ll deal with that next week. I’ll even ignore some of the divisive messages that other apostles said during the same conference weekend. Because I’m still in my bubble.
And for tomorrow… I’ll accept that the church is a huge and immobile ocean liner. It will not be able to do a U-turn in a few months or even years. It will be nudged, slowly, by degrees towards a more inclusive and universal place. I believe it needs to or it will eventually sink on the iceberg of obstinance and irrelevance. It may not do it soon enough for many of us. Some of us will simply have to accept that, as ships pass in the night, we give out an SOS and change vessels. A different ship but still heading for the same port.
Quote:“God operates among his children in all nations, and those who seek God are entitled to further light and knowledge, regardless of their race, nationality, or cultural traditions.”
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/1991/10/the-gospel-a-global-faith?lang=eng Quote:“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men; and it is one of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth yet he is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. God raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend. … All the great teachers are servants of God; among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them.”
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng So here’s the question: If Mormonism is not the only ship headed towards the divine port; if the Mormon ship is going to take a long time to turn and take our preferred route, then why stay? My answer today is in part an echo of the answer from President Uchtdorf yesterday: because being on this particular vessel persuades me to do good and even more because I have a particular fondness for many of the passengers on the Mormon ship.
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