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DarkJedi wrote:Ann wrote:
My guess is that our ward is 2/3 paper, 1/3 digital. I’m still paper, but have nothing against electronics in church. I’d prefer not to see people just scrolling through their Facebook feed, playing games, and texting a lot because it breaks the Sabbath mood for me. Everyone likes the line where they draw it. But since I no longer want people telling me what to do on many other fronts, I really try not to get critical of anyone on this one.
That’s interesting to me, Ann. How does what other people do break the Sabbath mood for you?
FWIW, I haven’t experienced anyone’s phone ringing during SM or any class, although it did once happen during stake conference.
We have discussed this in stake PEC and we have not reached consensus. Interestingly the same quote by Elder Oaks instigated the initial discussion but we didn’t go down the same road as in priesthood meeting. We have also discussed the issue specifically relating to youth.
I don’t know why. Games and Facebook feel like an intrusion into the Sabbath world we try to create at church. I go to church to take the sacrament and connect with people – make eye contact, take time to talk, be human together. I can go a million other places and be with people buried in their phones. But I never say anything about it, and I’m not sure a campaign to reduce phone use at church will work.Ann wrote:I’m not sure a campaign to reduce phone use at church will work.
I’m pretty sure it won’t. I think people, especially young adults and youth, will tend to just dig in their heels.
I do agree that for the few minutes it takes to administer the sacrament we could be off texting and Facebook, etc., and I have encouraged my children along those lines. But in the end it’s really about agency.
Pretty soon one of the selling points of attending the temple will be that it is the only place in the whole wide world to get away from smart phones. So far I haven’t seen one in the celestial room. Which is not to say that there aren’t some ringing in the lockers downstairs. I hadn’t thought about the temple, actually. I leave mine in the car. I took my IPad to Church for a while but found that I prefer the paper scriptures. I’ve nothing against those who use electronic devices. It’s simply my personal preference. Personally, I haven’t found them that distracting (except one poor 80 year old guy whose phone rang during sacrament meeting once. He couldn’t figure out how to turn it off. I think he left it home after that.) Well it’s silly really. It’s been a long time since I’ve sat in a chapel that wasn’t wholly illuminated with electronic light sources. I have yet to see anyone bring a bag of sunlight into a meeting. The organ is electronic. Sound reinforcement system is electronic. Ward bulletins are spat out of a photocopier. Whilst portable electronics can provide a distraction when an individual finds the content or presentation of a talk or lesson a bit dull, it also allows for quick fact checking of nebulous or incorrect statements during talks or lessons. What has been erased by ellipses in lesson manuals can be found. The audience is no longer captive. They are much more sophisticated, and will continue to increase in sophistication as time goes on.
But if you give devices to 12 year olds of course they are going to play games instead of listening to another story about stripling warriors.
I have a relative that works for the church’s IT department. A few years ago my relative worked on the project setting up iPads for the Qof15. They loaded all the scriptures, manuals, etc. They also had to make them secure as they had confidential information about people they were going to call, release, and other such stuff. If it’s good enough for the Brethren, its good enough for me! My bishop put a ban on the youth bringing electronics into SS and YM/YW because it could be distracting and said that when the missionaries could use technology then the youth could bring it to church. Well a few months later he received an email from a missionary sent from an ipad. So the ban went away. I can see both sides of the argument. They can be distracting and yet I use them to play games when I don’t like what the speaker is saying. Church is mind numbing for me and so I must find a way to keep myself busy and that’s my phone. I love the gospel library app, I have 8-10 open references running within the app, stuff for my calling, stuff for home study, hymns, a few others. I think it is great to have so much in that one app. LDS tools is another great tool. On the issue of restricting these or being distracted falls under I am at church to help me and my family, why bother what others think… I know not very Christlike, however I will apply the gospel to my life the best I can, cafeteria style ofcourse 
The problem isn’t electronics. When someone is giving an amazing talk, all the electronics are immediately put away. Electronics are merely a symptom of the disease. When authorities try to hide the symptoms, it doesn’t slow down the disease process, it just takes longer to get a proper diagnosis and treament.
The real question is: what is the treatment?
amateurparent wrote:The problem isn’t electronics. When someone is giving an amazing talk, all the electronics are immediately put away.
Electronics are merely a symptom of the disease. When authorities try to hide the symptoms, it doesn’t slow down the disease process, it just takes longer to get a proper diagnosis and treament.
The real question is: what is the treatment?
That’s a good thought and a question, AP. I was once in a ward where the bishopric met with the day’s speakers for a “prayer meeting” prior to SM (not sure if this happens now in other places, it wasn’t unheard of at the time) and they talked about general good techniques and staying within the time frame given. That really wasn’t so bad, and if a speaker wasn’t going to show the bishopric had a heads up. It also wasn’t very effective. Even less effective was that the bishop met with most of the speakers after SM to critique their talks (yes, really – I’m not making this up). He managed to offend almost everybody. FWIW it’s worth they also had some other odd practices, like waiting for everybody to be seated then walking down the aisle together and taking the stand (it reminded me of the priest and alter boys in Catholic services). His replacement was much more relaxed and much less controlling and micromanaging.
I’m not sure what would help. Even GAs who speak all the time sometimes bore me (OK, lots of the time) and I use my electronics to distract myself. During the aforementioned conversation in the OP, the guy sitting next to me noted the glow of electronics during our recent broadcast area conference in the darkened room – I did get some out of that conference, but I don’t remember a word of Elder Hales’s talk. We had a lesson in HPG a few months ago from an old Ensign article about how to give a good talk – I see no change in those who were present.
And on the topic of youth, we have discussed this in HC as well – while we’re not totally unanimous, there’s no ban on youth and electronics coming anytime soon in our area.
Let’s see, back in my earlier days we used quiet books to keep the little ones quiet. People read books in church, sometimes even scriptures. Coloring books, tic tac toe, dots. As long as I’ve been a member people have had distractions at church. Electronics are the latest and because advanced technology more pervasive or intrusive. I have an iPad but it usually stays at my side. Before my iPad I used paper scriptures and would often get sidetracked when a speaker quoted a scripture and I would look it up to find the context, I like the iPad because I put a library on it and that’s all I have to carry now.
I have decided that next time I’m in that ward I’m going to read scripture on my tablet while the sacrament is being passed. I already use it for the hymn and usually put it away. I usually don’t use it as extensively during SM in that ward because I’m sitting up front, but I do sometimes look up a scripture reference – but I usually do that on my phone. I’m bumping this one because I heard a different perspective on it during a recent training. A bishop brought up the concern of electronics in church. I have been to his ward and all of the bishopric there are on the more techie side of things, they each carry a tablet and no paper scriptures. The bishop had no issue with people reading scriptures or using the electronics for hymns, but he was concerned that some people were distracted from the sacrament meeting (and even the sacrament itself) while checking Facebook or playing games. His concern was that people were not getting all they could out of the meeting because of the distraction. He said they had decided as a bishopric that they would limit their use of electronics during SM so no one would get the idea that the bishopric might be surfing and use the excuse that it’s OK for them to do so because the bishopric does.
(Full disclosure: I am guilty of checking this site if I am really bored, I have yet to plat a game during SM, and in all cases I am more likely to be reading something else worthwhile when I’m not interested in the topic/speaker or actually looking up a reference to something the speaker said. I am also fully aware that my own teenage sons are mostly surfing/texting/Facebooking during SM but not the sacrament. Finally, I do legitimately use my device to read scripture during the sacrament – almost always one of the accounts of the crucifixion and resurrection and the events surrounding those events. )
DarkJedi wrote:I’m bumping this one because I heard a different perspective on it during a recent training.
A bishop brought up the concern of electronics in church. I have been to his ward and all of the bishopric there are on the more techie side of things, they each carry a tablet and no paper scriptures. The bishop had no issue with people reading scriptures or using the electronics for hymns, but he was concerned that some people were distracted from the sacrament meeting (and even the sacrament itself) while checking Facebook or playing games. His concern was that people were not getting all they could out of the meeting because of the distraction. He said they had decided as a bishopric that they would limit their use of electronics during SM so no one would get the idea that the bishopric might be surfing and use the excuse that it’s OK for them to do so because the bishopric does.
DJ, I appreciate your adding this. I believe that this is what is at the heart of the issue; not the use of an electronic device, but the misuse of it. The bishop’s perspective seems very sane to me.As an extra data point, I usually have my paper NRSV with me. I sometimes read something and I want to see how it is rendered in a different translation, so I borrow my wife’s tablet and look up the passage at biblegateway. When I get to Elders Quorum, they tell everyone to pull up the manual on their “phone or tablet” and I sit there without the manual because I don’t have either a device or a paper copy with me. All I have is my bible; and the wrong translation at that.
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