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March 7, 2016 at 10:08 pm #210611
Anonymous
GuestI just finished a book titled: Quote:Beloved Emma: the illustrated life story of Emma Smith
by: Lori Woodland
It was published by Deseret Book. The author is a professor from BYU Idaho Falls.
I found it interesting because the Author did put a human story to a LDS hero even though she went through her own Faith Crisis.
The author quotes JS’s children, talks about the organization of Reorganized LDS Church & quotes people who knew Emma through to the end of her
life. It sounds like she remained a respected member of the Nauvoo community after the LDS church moved to Utah.
I find it interesting that the LDS church puts Emma on a pedestal & rarely talks about her personal FC before & after the death of JS.
Historically speaking JS has always been an interesting & charismatic leader in the Church. Emma seems more human to me.
March 7, 2016 at 10:35 pm #309890Anonymous
GuestDoes she ever talk about any kind of spiritual witness or experience to ground her faith, or was she mostly faithful and loyal to Joseph and his visions, trusting he was honest with her? March 7, 2016 at 10:58 pm #309891Anonymous
GuestThanks, Minyan Man. One thing I often think about regarding Emma is how we tend to give her more the benefit of the doubt than JS. We sort of think of her as a victim (not hard to arrive at that by reading D&C 132). Yet, many years later, when William Law gave his interview to the SLTrib raking JS over the coals, he pulled no punches with Emma:
Quote:Emma was a full accomplice of Joseph’s crimes. She was a large, coarse woman, as deep a woman as there was, always full of schemes and smooth as oil. They were worthy of each other, she was not a particle better than he.
What I find so fascinating is that WL was disparaging of both in very unflattering terms, but one of them, JS, we tend to burn in effigy, believing all that WL had to say, while the other, ES, we tend to forgive, almost accepting that WL must not be a fair witness of her character. I think it’s a great example of what Don Miguel Ruiz said:Quote:We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.
March 8, 2016 at 12:13 am #309892Anonymous
GuestOf course it’s all guesswork but WL may have seen a side of Emma that rarely came out. There are a few reports that ES was upset over polygamy and reasoned that if JS could have spiritual wives then she should be entitled to spiritual husbands. If that’s indeed the case who knows how long ES endured polygamy before coming to that conclusion. ES selects WL as her first additional husband and that may have been WL’s lasting impression of ES. I know my impression of someone would change if they came to me with a similar proposal. Now we have those verses in D&C 132 and the rest is muddled history. Of course there I go giving her more of the benefit of the doubt than I do JS (and WL for that matter).
Yeah, we see what we want to see.
March 8, 2016 at 1:51 am #309893Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:Does she ever talk about any kind of spiritual witness or experience to ground her faith, or was she mostly faithful and loyal to Joseph and his visions, trusting he was honest with her?
She talks very little about any kind of spiritual witness or experience. When someone would ask her about JS & his experiences, she seemed to be
loyal to JS. At the end of her life, she had a vision of JS coming back to her & taking her into the next life. The story was told by her nurse & housekeeper
who told JSIII. I understand that BY, on his deathbed, called out to JS. I can’t imagine the personality & influence of someone like JS, who impacted a
number of people like this, years after his own death. ES influenced a lot of people too. The Author describes Emma’s funeral as being attended by “many”
people. Some of the people who attended were (2) of JS younger Sisters. One of the things that she said Emma regretted was denying that JS practiced
polygamy. The reason they speculated was to protect the children. According to the author, JSIII didn’t know his Father practiced polygamy until he went
out west while on a mission for the “reorganized church”. (I don’t know if that makes sense or not.)
March 16, 2016 at 5:22 pm #309894Anonymous
GuestMinyan Man wrote:One of the things that she said Emma regretted was denying that JS practiced polygamy. The reason they speculated was to protect the children. According to the author, JSIII didn’t know his Father practiced polygamy until he went out west while on a mission for the “reorganized church”. (I don’t know if that makes sense or not.)
I speculate that Emma denied polygamy in order to protect the legacy of her husband with all that this included (It would tend to help her own reputation as well as that of the children). I find it hard to speculate that she regretted denying polygamy. I find that many LDS books that portray Emma must come to grips with her stance against polygamy. We LDS believe that polygamy was divinely commanded and was a test to those that were to live it. I observe that these LDS books want to praise Emma but are beholden to maintain polygamy as divine. Sometimes they will speculate that Emma was influenced by others (William Law, William Smith, etc.) to stand against BY. The Movie “Emma Smith: My Story” portrays the following dialogue between Emma and her adopted daughter Julia:
Quote:Emma: Life is like the river Julia. Sometimes it sweeps you gently along, sometimes the rapids come out of nowhere.
Julia: The revelation on plural marriage was one of those rapids, wasn’t it, mother? How can you ignore something that hurt you so much?
Emma: I don’t speak of it, but I have never ignored it.
Julia: Then why the silence?
Emma: What good would speaking of it do? It flew in the face of everything that was dear to us – all that we meant to each other.
Julia: Then why did you allow it?
Emma: Because it was the price of faith. God commanded and Joseph obeyed. It nearly broke both of our hearts.
Julia: Some say that there were other reasons. They say father was a fallen prophet.
Emma: People say all kinds of things, but Julia I know better. Joseph taught what God revealed, nothing more. He sealed that witness with his life.
I feel that this is a combination of wishful thinking and sleight of hand that Emma would privately have a (painful) testimony of Polygamy even near the end of her life and that Emma would share this testimony with a daughter even when she would only give her sons (and the general public) firm denials.
Minyan Man wrote:According to the author, JSIII didn’t know his Father practiced polygamy until he went out west while on a mission for the “reorganized church”.
Yes, JSIII and his brother David went on proselytizing missions among the Brighamites. For the most part they were well received. BY provided witness testimony to JSIII of his father’s involvement with the doctrine. Even then Emma denied her husband’s involvement in it and JSIII respected her too much to press the issue very far.
March 16, 2016 at 5:56 pm #309895Anonymous
GuestOn my personal blog, I wrote the following post ( ):http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2013/08/a-very-short-tribute-to-emma-smith.html Quote:Emma was an amazing woman who was very different in personality than the husband she loved and supported with all her heart – and I believe she is guaranteed a place in Heaven, because she already has gone through Hell.
Also, from my blog (
):http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-i-love-and-honor-joseph-smith-and.html Quote:I’ve studied enough of him to see him as an incredibly complex person – a saint and a sinner – with the heavenly and hellish fighting inside him. He’s me on steroids – so I honor the saint on steroids (the Prophet) and intentionally refuse to judge the sinner on steroids (the man). He usually was not on those steroids, however, and I really have come to love the steroid-less man – and Emma, who stayed with him through the entire roller-coaster ride.
I have a hard time explaining how much I admire that woman.
March 16, 2016 at 7:31 pm #309896Anonymous
GuestMy connections to our churches history didn’t really begin until I was 13 or 14. If it was talked about much it didn’t hit me. Yes we sung The Golden Plates song, and Pioneer Children, but I lived in California in a time when growing the church was a local responsibility much more time was spent on building Zion. Money for a new Stake Center, then the human work of building that building. Money to purchase land nearby where we could escape or congregate should the world get bad or mobs oppress. (This is not a joke). Once the land was purchased then work to clear, irrigate and make the land useful came into play. That was the church history or church connection I was impacted by. Then when I was 13 I was called to babysit kids while adults practiced with the ward choir. One week a boy older than me came to help out. During that time he was catching up on his seminary stuff. He began reading D&C stuff, and telling me what he learned. I had no idea about some of it. I was fascinated. One of the key fascinations was Emma. I’d heard of Joseph, but never Emma. As I read what little I could find on her my admiration of her grew. I still can not to this day explain all the passions I feel toward Emma. I only know I find her heroic on multiple levels.
March 16, 2016 at 9:51 pm #309897Anonymous
GuestOn Own Now wrote:Thanks, Minyan Man.
One thing I often think about regarding Emma is how we tend to give her more the benefit of the doubt than JS. We sort of think of her as a victim (not hard to arrive at that by reading D&C 132). Yet, many years later, when William Law gave his interview to the SLTrib raking JS over the coals, he pulled no punches with Emma:
Quote:Emma was a full accomplice of Joseph’s crimes. She was a large, coarse woman, as deep a woman as there was, always full of schemes and smooth as oil. They were worthy of each other, she was not a particle better than he.
What I find so fascinating is that WL was disparaging of both in very unflattering terms, but one of them, JS, we tend to burn in effigy, believing all that WL had to say, while the other, ES, we tend to forgive, almost accepting that WL must not be a fair witness of her character. I think it’s a great example of what Don Miguel Ruiz said:Quote:We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.
I read the SL Trib article. I remember hearing talks from Truman Madsen where he absolutely proclaimed that William Law was a son of perdition, as wicked as Judas Iscariot or Cain. I was REALLY surprised that someone like that would have even been allowed into Utah (I say this only half sarcastically). At this point, I find myself just again flabbergasted.
My heart goes out to Emma,…but I have no idea what to believe. And, I’m getting to the point where I don’t really care. It is interesting however….
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