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I had a conversation with a trusted loved one that I wasn’t planning on having, but I guess I really needed to tell someone who knew me well that my testimony has crumbled. I tried to leave out specifics because I didn’t want to negatively affect their faith, but I confessed that I could no longer say ” I know the church is true” and that I find the 3 hour block to be mind numblingly boring and incredibly uncomfortable since I don’t believe much of what is taught anymore. I knew I could trust this person and that they would love me unconditionally, even still I was surprised by their loving response…perhaps the fact that I cried the whole time helped 😳 They encouraged me to do whatever I needed to to be happy, to not worry about what other family members would say or do if they knew about my FC. They said “maybe just go to church once a month etc” and made some very thoughtful and open minded suggestions. Plus a hug. I really love this person. Maybe I am underestimating my Mom, who I don’t think would encourage me to just be happy, I think she would encourage me to endure to the end, like she has despite my inactive father. I feel like I have been enduring, in the grueling…this sucks sort of way. I often go to church for the kids, but lately…they have been coming home with questions like ” You wouldn’t try to kill me would you Mom? ” ” What? Why would you say that?” “Because Abraham was going to kill Issac because God told him to” I told my child that God would never tell a parent to kill their child, that that story isn’t literal. Then another Sunday the Bishop gave a lesson in primary about the plan of salvation, with the 3 degrees of glory draw on the chalk board and how only those who do this, and this, and not this get to live with H.F again. My father left the church when I was a child, and my husband left the church several years ago…since my childhood I have always had a negative visceral reaction to the plan of salvation. I looked around the primary room thinking of all the different family situations that could mean eternal separation and wondered if any of the kids were paying close enough attention to be worried. They were. My child’s best friend came over the next day and couldn’t sit still, she was just jittery with anxiety. She came in the kitchen and told me she was scared that not everyone in her family was going to make it to the celestial kingdom. I gave her a hug and told her that Heavenly Father wouldn’t separate her family in heaven. Then she came back with a list of yeah-but’s so I smiled and told her to go outside and play with the other kids. Her parent’s are the GD teacher and Stake presidency something, I didn’t want to undermine them. I do not want my children to believe in the plan of salvation…that’s pretty core doctrine for me to not embrace, but I am much happier now that I no longer believe it…except for when I go to church and subject myself to 3 hours of struggling to find something to believe in. I just don’t know if I can keep doing this, or if I even should. I’m raising 3 daughters in the church, they are going to notice soon enough that there is a drastic difference between the roles of men and women in the church. They receive day camp invites that include instructions like” no shorts, so your light can shine”. They march around the primary room singing follow the prophet don’t go astray and my stomach turns a little. I can still see good, but I’m pretty sure I can teach them the good on my own and free myself from the burden of trying to endure the rest. I’ve had a couple of ‘family sundays’ on days when I literally couldn’t get myself to do it. We’ve gone on hikes and spent all day together as a family, my kids loved it…which made trying to get them to go to church the next Sunday even harder, one daughter will toss herself backwards on to the nearest piece of furniture and cry at the mention of going to church, I’m tempted to join her. I feel that I am at a crossroads, I’m not sure I could ever really leave Mormonism behind so I put my shoulder to the wheel and keep going, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere, I’m just exhausted. Have any of you been here? Was enduring worth it, did you find happiness again? I don’t really expect anyone to hold the answer, I just appreciate you all so much and am so grateful for the kindness and wisdom I’ve found here.pentium3 wrote:I had a conversation with a trusted loved one that I wasn’t planning on having, but I guess I really needed to tell someone who knew me well that my testimony has crumbled. I tried to leave out specifics because I didn’t want to negatively affect their faith, but I confessed that I could no longer say ” I know the church is true” and that I find the 3 hour block to be mind numblingly boring and incredibly uncomfortable since I don’t believe much of what is taught anymore. I knew I could trust this person and that they would love me unconditionally, even still I was surprised by their loving response…perhaps the fact that I cried the whole time helped
😳 They encouraged me to do whatever I needed to to be happy, to not worry about what other family members would say or do if they knew about my FC. They said “maybe just go to church once a month etc” and made some very thoughtful and open minded suggestions. Plus a hug. I really love this person. Maybe I am underestimating my Mom, who I don’t think would encourage me to just be happy, I think she would encourage me to endure to the end, like she has despite my inactive father. I feel like I have been enduring, in the grueling…this sucks sort of way. I often go to church for the kids, but lately…they have been coming home with questions like ” You wouldn’t try to kill me would you Mom? ” ” What? Why would you say that?” “Because Abraham was going to kill Issac because God told him to” I told my child that God would never tell a parent to kill their child, that that story isn’t literal. Then another Sunday the Bishop gave a lesson in primary about the plan of salvation, with the 3 degrees of glory draw on the chalk board and how only those who do this, and this, and not this get to live with H.F again. My father left the church when I was a child, and my husband left the church several years ago…since my childhood I have always had a negative visceral reaction to the plan of salvation. I looked around the primary room thinking of all the different family situations that could mean eternal separation and wondered if any of the kids were paying close enough attention to be worried. They were. My child’s best friend came over the next day and couldn’t sit still, she was just jittery with anxiety. She came in the kitchen and told me she was scared that not everyone in her family was going to make it to the celestial kingdom. I gave her a hug and told her that Heavenly Father wouldn’t separate her family in heaven. Then she came back with a list of yeah-but’s so I smiled and told her to go outside and play with the other kids. Her parent’s are the GD teacher and Stake presidency something, I didn’t want to undermine them. I do not want my children to believe in the plan of salvation…that’s pretty core doctrine for me to not embrace, but I am much happier now that I no longer believe it…except for when I go to church and subject myself to 3 hours of struggling to find something to believe in. I just don’t know if I can keep doing this, or if I even should. I’m raising 3 daughters in the church, they are going to notice soon enough that there is a drastic difference between the roles of men and women in the church. They receive day camp invites that include instructions like” no shorts, so your light can shine”. They march around the primary room singing follow the prophet don’t go astray and my stomach turns a little. I can still see good, but I’m pretty sure I can teach them the good on my own and free myself from the burden of trying to endure the rest. I’ve had a couple of ‘family sundays’ on days when I literally couldn’t get myself to do it. We’ve gone on hikes and spent all day together as a family, my kids loved it…which made trying to get them to go to church the next Sunday even harder, one daughter will toss herself backwards on to the nearest piece of furniture and cry at the mention of going to church, I’m tempted to join her. I feel that I am at a crossroads, I’m not sure I could ever really leave Mormonism behind so I put my shoulder to the wheel and keep going, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere, I’m just exhausted. Have any of you been here? Was enduring worth it, did you find happiness again? I don’t really expect anyone to hold the answer, I just appreciate you all so much and am so grateful for the kindness and wisdom I’ve found here.Hi pentium3. That’s a lot to chew at once. But I am no stranger for someone to “force feed” me “for my own good”.
First 2 ignorant things–always take time to slow down and breath when internal or external pressure get to much.
Always take time to “smell the flowers”– regardless of which path you choose, letting life rush you has bit really done people good at all.
Take what you can take, when you need a break, slow down, life is not a race and “racing” to “save yourself” is counter productive.
I like a lot if things about church, I have a lot if dedication.
But the first thing I try to remember is it’s not the church I am dedicated to.
It’s a set of principles that have proven over time to help humanity.
This works well with much of the church offers but against some things that have proven over time to be destructive for humanity on the whole that is invariably taught in any authoritarian religion, culture or government.
The only “real” problem I have with the church would be Coercion or indoctrination
Since both cause similar harm studies show.
This is done by taking brain images 6 months and comparing them to brain images of 18-20 years for those in coercion and indoctrination and comparing then to normal or non indoctrination-coersed children.
Physically the brains are altered permanently. It can’t be undone if done while the child is still physically devil ping their brain. The restructure is there forever.
With that in mind children learn all kinds of good and useful stuff as well as some pretty harmful stuff that can reactor negatively to their personality. You will have to see for yourself and judge for yourself.
I just bring up the brain studies because we can’t “see” this going on in their brain. It won’t be obvious in any way what is going on their unless you get a image scan.
Physiologically it can help it hurt depending on their nature and personality.
The importance of knowledge combined with close observation parenting.
Regardless, the approach I take is watching and observing oneself inside and paying close attention to what the brain/body/spirit are communicating with me.
If it’s good feedback I stay, if 1 or all 3 are reacting negatively to what is being said I must leave.
It’s all up to you. I fully accord with positive self discipline and self control.
Often at church what is promoted is known to be beyond healthy levels of both.
Take what good you can and leave the rest of what may be causing issues in your life and family.
To forsake this life for the next isn’t a good path, not even for humanity as a whole.
It doesn’t mean eat drink and be marry. But procrastinating life long love of inner talent and voice and being ones self for a I foreseeable future is highly destructive to the individual and society history and test have shown.
There’s a lot of good at church, but there is a lot of good ideas taken well beyond the point it ceases to be good and starts harming people. Just don’t let that point(what ever it is for your family) to step over into the negative bounds.
This is something they works well outside of church as well with work/school/ friendships.
Take care.
pentium3 wrote:” no shorts, so your light can shine”.
:crazy: I almost spurt out my beverage upon reading that.:crazy: pentium3 wrote:I feel that I am at a crossroads, I’m not sure I could ever really leave Mormonism behind so I put my shoulder to the wheel and keep going, but I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere, I’m just exhausted. Have any of you been here? Was enduring worth it, did you find happiness again? I don’t really expect anyone to hold the answer, I just appreciate you all so much and am so grateful for the kindness and wisdom I’ve found here.
It does get better or easier. A big part of that for me has been from managing expectations and limiting costs.
I don’t expect much from my church experience. It seems sooo insular and that seems confining to me. I compare it to staying with family – you love them but after a few days/weeks you are ready for a break. I don’t live in the same “world” as most of my fellow ward members – I only visit it for three hours on Sundays.
Limiting costs is the other part of keeping my participation sustainable. I only give what I feel comfortable giving. If the giving is too much or runs counter to my motivations for giving then I seek to make adjustments. For the moment tithing is not something that I could sustainably give (I.E. I’d rather not go to church then surrender that much of the family budget). I might someday reconsider based on altruistic reasons, but I fear that payment to secure promised blessings (that is so often trumpeted in the church) will never again be motivating for me.
I hope that you can find a balance that is workable and sustainable to you.
First of all HUGS! I am so glad you were able to finally tell someone. I know how liberating that feels. I have been pleasantly surprised by my TBM friends and surprised that not everyone believes the way I speculated they did. I swear I could have written your posts! I hope you will continue to receive the support you need. I wish I had some amazing answers but I don’t. But I bet you do. Pretend that someone asked you what to do and then write out the answers that come. I really like what FC said about taking it slow. That can’t be more true.
I also like that he said “it is not the church I am dedicated to”. I go because that is what my family needs from me right now. I try not to think about the future, but just focus on Today. Today this works for me, it may or may not work in the future, but that doesn’t matter. The thought of quitting church entirely brings a panic attack, so I am not ready for that yet. I take it one week at a time and try release the anger and fear in healthy ways. I also feel that you have more influence in your home than what your children will learn at church. I ask what they learn and offer my beliefs (as long as it is something I feel my TBM husband would be OK with). I love that you can tell your children that God would never do that. Sounds like you have some pretty intelligent children.
I like what FC said, too, and my usual advice is to take it slow. I usually say two other things with that and at least one of them is appropriate to your situation – focus on what you do believe and don’t dump all at once. There’s lots in church I don’t agree with as well, but I have been able to StayLDS by focusing on what I do believe, which really has more to do with the gospel as opposed to the church. The gospel is in there, though, hiding beneath all the other stuff. I also think it’s great you have an understanding loved one. Lean on them if they will allow and you want to – that’s a valuable gift that many of us do not have. Thank you for your replies. I feel better than I did when I first posted…just feeling understood is healing. Roy… fortunately I was the only one in my family who noticed the shorts rule for the’let your light shine’ day camp. It rained that day so my girls wore pants anyway..but I was irritated by it. I did mention it to my sister who said something like..crap like that only happens in Utah. I hope she’s right…but I live in Utah so crap :problem: I will take this conference weekend to try to relax and not let things that don’t ring true negatively affect me. I’m not good at that yet…I’m used to feeling like it’s all true whether I like it or not. I think there will be struggles for me in or out of the church…I can continue carrying this load of feeling spiritually responsible for my family. Thank you again for your support. I’m always a little amazed at how helpful anonymous strangers can be.pentium3 wrote:I think there will be struggles for me in or out of the church…I can continue carrying this load of feeling spiritually responsible for my family.
If I could go back in time, the one thing I would change wouldn’t be my own suffering. It would be so my mom would know she is responsible for herself and no one else. It isn’t possible, nor is it emotionally healthy to be anything other then a good influence on others. People can not, nor should they try to control others even if they believe it’s in their best interest. It’s emotionally draining and destructive for both sides. Ease the burden a bit by focusing on what you can control “you”. By modeling good behavior. The chips will fall where they may. It’s beyond anointed control except for self. Like in Jurassic park “life will find a way”. This is true. Ultimately we are responsible for our own selves and life will always try to reach a instinctive balance with a situation. One one side pulls hard the other must in the opposite direction in order in ache ice balance in that area, usually it happens without even consciously thinking about it.
Just the way things in the universe work because BALANCE is KEY for SUSTAINABILITY over time. What ever balance that us for you and your family. Hyperactive and endure are polar opposites. One is shirt term the other designed for long term goals.
Part of my struggle is figuring what is best for my kids.. I feel the weight of it. If I became inactive it would affect them socially…they don’t even know a non Mormon..at all. Even their school teachers have all been Mormon. I’ve known of people here who won’t let their kids play with anyone who isn’t Mormon. I had a positive experience growing up in the church despite the occasional lesson that scared me because my dad had ‘fallen away’. I always believed he would come back because I prayed for him to every night. I loved being in yw and girls camp and super Saturday’s and youth conference. My ability to figure out how to manage my relationship with the church will shape my daughter’s childhood. My husband is supportive but concerned about indoctrination and some of the other messages girls receive at church, he would be just fine if we joined him for family Sunday’s every week. So it’s up to me…it was easier to bear when I was a devout traditional believer..but now I have a hard time sitting through church alone. I’ve also struggled to make friends here. My ward is huge…people come and go and perhaps I am putting off a negative aura that makes me seem un-approachable. I’ve never been in a ward where I’ve felt so alone ( I’m 3 years new to Utah..maybe this is just the norm here). Right now I think that’s the hardest part..I’ve come to terms with the church not being the one and only true church…I just don’t want it to be so difficult to enjoy going to church. I can’t quite imagine walking away right now…so I’ll keep working on how to focus on the good and let go of the bad. I’m hoping that gets easier with time. pentium3 wrote:So it’s up to me…it was easier to bear when I was a devout traditional believer..but now I have a hard time sitting through church alone. I’ve also struggled to make friends here. My ward is huge…people come and go and perhaps I am putting off a negative aura that makes me seem un-approachable. I’ve never been in a ward where I’ve felt so alone ( I’m 3 years new to Utah..maybe this is just the norm here). Right now I think that’s the hardest part..I’ve come to terms with the church not being the one and only true church…I just don’t want it to be so difficult to enjoy going to church.
Hi, pentium3 – I really feel for you. I’ve also tried to identify and be honest with myself about other things that contribute to my overall mood about church. (I also have to say that when you have good friends at church the worry and stress shifts over to, “Would we still be close if I were more open?”) I hope that with time you’ll find friends there; sometimes it takes awhile. In the meantime, hugs from me.
Within Utah and anywhere else, every ward is has its own personality. My first ward after I got married was wonderful. I had one of the most loving and concerned home teachers I’ve ever known, and everyone was friendly. The next was large and distant—I don’t recall speaking to a single person either in or out of church, beyond the occasional hello in the hallways. Not once. We were only there for a year. We never got asked to speak in church, give prayers, or have a calling, never had home teachers, nothing. The next ward was friendly enough but we struggled to feel at home there. It was about three years before we finally started feeling at home, and then we moved shortly after. Our new ward has been amazing and great right from the get-go. Each one has had its advantages and problems. I shudder to think where we’d be if we’d stayed in that second ward. If you got one like that, I’m sorry. That can make things a huge challenge. Ideally, it I both – in whatever form is a good balance individually. Getting there takes time and can be painful, but I believe it is an important journey.
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