- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I had the chance to watch the youth face to face with Elder Bednar on Tuesday. I don’t know if this is a regular thing the church does with the youth or not. I liked the format of the meeting. It was very different than the usually church leader standing at a podium and talking in a very format way. I liked seeing one of the Apostles in a more human like way. I also thought it was good for DD to see that they are not perfect as well. When answering a question from a young woman that didn’t feel accepted because she was not pretty enough, Elder Bednar said his wife was old and wrinkly.
😮 Then he tried to fix it and by saying he thought she was beautiful even if no one else did. DD said to me he really stuck his foot in his mouth and might be sleeping on the couch tonight, she thought it was really funny that an apostle would say something like that. She said that is was just like when her dad says something dumb and then tries to fix it but digs a deeper hole instead.😳 DD also noticed sometimes they would grab each other’s hands. I said maybe that was their signal to each other to wrap it up. She thought that was neat too. I want her to see that they are just like other people and just because they are a general authority they are not totally perfect.There was some good answers to the questions asked and I liked how he really encouraged the youth to find some of their own answers to questions using the spirit and the scriptures. He said that just having a bad thought is not a sin, lingering on it is bad, and acting on it is the sin. I thought that was a great thing to say to the youth.
I was really impressed with it until the last question which really broke my heart. The question was about having questions and doubts about the gospel. Elder Bednar said we could have questions but never doubts which he defined as being cynical, disbelieving and mistrusting. Doubts mean there is something wrong with us. Sister Bednar then talked about how there are just no answers to some things so we should stop looking and instead start asking the right questions. This really contradicts their other responses where they encouraged people to search for answers. She said that God will just not answer some questions because they are not important, even if we think they are important. She did not define which types of questions she and God thought were the right ones to ask.
Did anyone else watch this. It is pretty long. What did you think of about it.
[url]I didn’t watch, but I wanted to point out that this is the first of this type of thing they have done with a GA. They have done them before, but with people like David Archuleta. I like the concept. Thanks for the link – I might watch, although I’m not a huge fan of Elder Bednar. I’m becoming a little troubled about the varying definition of “doubt” among church leadership. I fear doubt is being cast as too much of a negative word when I don’t think the negative connotations are necessarily an accurate and accepted definition.
Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:I was really impressed with it until the last question which really broke my heart. The question was about having questions and doubts about the gospel. Elder Bednar said we could have questions but never doubts which he defined as being cynical, disbelieving and mistrusting.
Doubts mean there is something wrong with us.Sister Bednar then talked about how there are just no answers to some things so we should stop looking and instead start asking the right questions. This really contradicts their other responses where they encouraged people to search for answers. She said that God will just not answer some questions because they are not important, even if we think they are important. She did not define which types of questions she and God thought were the right ones to ask. I watched the first half. I liked that they were trying something new, putting everyone on the same stage and talking “face 2 face.” (As his wife I’d be dismayed with the cold assessment of my physicality, but maybe that’s no problem in their marriage. Or maybe he becomes stilted when discussing private thoughts in public. But I once heard him on a podcast remembering back to their BYU days and how clumsy she was with a football or frisbee or whatever; it wasn’t very kind.)
But I like that they’re trying to respond.
I think “we don’t have the answers” is for cosmic questions like evil and suffering. For everything else let’s never stop looking for answers. I don’t think my seventeen year-old is going to define unanswerable the same way Elder and Sister Bednar do. Not to say she’s always right, but there’s a conflict coming….
Thanks for the report. Overall, it sounds like it is a really good thing. I understand the view of doubt that equates it with cynicism and unwillingness to do anything without proof – but I really dislike how it is presented in many cases and your summary of how Elder Bednar and his wife interpret it. Having said that, I wouldn’t expect anything else from them, since they seem to be very black-and-white, letter-of-the-law type people. I think the answer from about half of the Q12 would have been different.
I think this is a great opportunity to talk with your daughter about not having to agree with apostles about everything while still accepting them in their positions – that the foundation for that talk was laid well by the other stuff she observed. I wish everyone who attended could look at it that way, but we all are different and I need to respect that.
Old-Timer wrote:I think this is a great opportunity to talk with your daughter about not having to agree with apostles about everything while still accepting them in their positions – that the foundation for that talk was laid well by the other stuff she observed. I wish everyone who attended could look at it that way, but we all are different and I need to respect that.
I think this is a good way to look at it. Yes, you can disagree with a prophet, even, while still maintaining your commitment and respect for his position.
Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:Elder Bednar said we could have questions but never doubts which he defined as being cynical, disbelieving and mistrusting. Doubts mean there is something wrong with us. Sister Bednar then talked about how there are just no answers to some things so we should stop looking and instead start asking the right questions. This really contradicts their other responses where they encouraged people to search for answers. She said that God will just not answer some questions because they are not important, even if we think they are important. She did not define which types of questions she and God thought were the right ones to ask.
Did anyone else watch this. It is pretty long. What did you think of about it.
[url]Based on the overall summary, I am sure they define doubt as “active disbelief and refusal to consider anything not visible” – like “Doubting Thomas”. I am NOT excusing it by saying that, since I dislike that definition greatly, but it helps to step back and realize they probably aren’t talking about uncertainty or questions.
“…in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions—that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.” -Pope Francis I realize it’s easy to take pot shots at Bednar or his statement regarding doubt. I just had to post this to bring balance back to the Force.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I apologize if I come off angry. I’m hurting right now. I was dreading this event. Facebook kept trying to promote it to me and people kept sharing it. People were excited. I had a feeling this wasn’t going to bode well for me. I intentionally didn’t watch this. Sometimes I think about how we got to this position where people are so fixated on the rules of the church and all the little “you’re supposed to’s” of our church, which I feel distract from the gospel. Then I remember we probably did it to ourselves. People often want a detailed list of instructions on how to live their lives so it takes the pressure off of them to have to make those decisions. We’re created this culture where we want answers from the General Authorities and want to hear from them all the time. I understand that this brings peace to some people, but I think it can be problematic. Personally, I’m of the opinion that less is more in regards to “answers” from the General Authorities.
Old-Timer wrote:Based on the overall summary, I am sure they define doubt as “active disbelief and refusal to consider anything not visible” – like “Doubting Thomas”.I am NOT excusing it by saying that, since I dislike that definition greatly, but it helps to step back and realize they probably aren’t talking about uncertainty or questions.
I think that’s a hopeful way to perceive his definition of doubt, Ray. I’m glad that works for you. For me, I wouldn’t go as so far as to say “refusal to consider anything not visible.” Rather, I’d think his definition of doubt is more aligned with what Mrs. SuperChicken articulated Elder Bednar said, ” cynical, disbelieving and mistrusting.” It means something else to me. To me, this goes along the same lines I got fed last year from my Bishop and ward leadership, “The Church wants you to know it’s okay to have questions, just not disagreements. If you don’t understand the Church on this one, that’s okay, as long as you don’t go the other way.” It’s okay to have concerns, as long as you still trust the Church. You can have some reservations, but you need to be on the path to accepting the Church’s positions.
So basically, I can’t even say I have “doubts” anymore to TBM friends without trigging something that implies I am sinning
🙄 
😥 Well, my view of what church leaders decry when they decry “doubting” is yet another definition. It seems to me that they mean inaction or being indecisive and uncommitted. I think what most doubters mean is that they have questions, but church leaders are from another generation. I’ve been thinking lately about how much military service has colored that generation’s perspective. When you doubt orders, you don’t obey quickly and lives are lost. It’s a soldier mentality. But we are in peace time, and our thoughts are not war thoughts. Doubt has been a popular word lately and it’s really starting to bug me that we’re never specific. Doubts…about what? That’s why I loved Sister Wixom’s GC talk about the woman who had “questions about how the Book of Mormon came to be.” Even though she gives a lot of the standard counsel to build on what you do believe, continue in faith, etc., just uttering something real and specific over the pulpit was so refreshing. I wish the the Bednars had fielded a very specific question from one of those kids. I don’t believe “X” or I don’t understand “Y” Do you have any counsel for me?
Quote:Did you ever have any doubts about what you knew to be true. If so how did you get through it and what you did to erase the doubts?
I would be clear about what the definition of doubt is. If you look up the definition in the dictionary it means to mistrust to be suspicious to be cynical and to disbelieve. Now there are people who say the church doesn’t encourage people to ask questions, I don’t agree with that statement. There are things we seek to learn we have honest inquiry and we ask, seek, and knock. That’s not the same as moving to disbelieve, cynicism, and mistrust so are there lots of things I haven’t understood, needed to learn about so the answer is yes, but I didn’t become mistrusting, cynical, disbelieving.
This is what Pres. Bednar said. It is very much the black and white thinking that I have a hard time with. I am mistrusting and suspicious of certain things I feel as though I have reason to be. Though I can let go of the anger and work towards forgiving people and even the church. It would be fool hearty to forget about it and not be somewhat mistrusting, and suspicious. And as soon as someone starts to ask, seek, or knock about certain things all the people around you start to mistrust, be suspicious and cynical towards the asker. I wish we could find better solutions to this instead of labeling and shaming people.
Old-Timer wrote:
I think this is a great opportunity to talk with your daughter about not having to agree with apostles about everything while still accepting them in their positions – that the foundation for that talk was laid well by the other stuff she observed.It was a great chance to talk to her about this. She noticed that they contradicted themselves on the doubt question, but really liked some of the other things. And seeing them in a more natural way helped with this discussion. We don’t live where you see general authorities at the grocery store. If I could teach her this now I hope it will save her from some heartache in the future.
I guess you have to take the good with the bad like most of life. I need to learn to apply that to the church in general instead of clinging to the idea of “perfection” that is thrown around so much. It is going to take time and effort to do that as it is a huge paradigm change for me not ever hearing anything else.
“Doubt” is a loaded word in Mormon culture, that much we can agree on. I think it is a good practice to avoid the word in discussions with other members, unless the topic is to define and broaden understanding of the word itself. I like “uncertainty” it doesn’t feel as loaded. We can talk about uncertainty and seeking answers, “there is much I don’t know” etc.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
