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DBMormon wrote:
It main purpose and niche is to concern oneself less with the answers and rather to empathize with the struggle of one who doubts while encouraging them towards faith and the Family members and others affected by these faith struggles while answering difficult questions plays a secondary role..
It is also a support community for family and friends of those who are affected and need support.
That is an important message and one that is 100% compatable with orthodoxy.
:thumbup: DBMormon wrote:church0333 wrote:Quote:For instance
anyone pushing doubt is out. Anyone trying to debate is out.Also it is less of a place to share daily happening like stay Lds and rather focus on the spiritual hard times. I see the Outreach board having much less active particpants and those that come are looking for immediate help I have review this site and after reading Bill’s comment this site made me feel a little uncomfortable in truth, too controlling and too much like the church makes me feel at times. They don’t want debate, just get on board and feel good about it.
Maybe I should clarify. by pushing doubt , I mean those that come with an agenda to destroy faith. And by those who want to debate I mean the apologists who simply want to win an argument at the expense of those struggling.
The site will give the benefit of the doubt to those struggling. They can vent and get things off their chest. I think if you read the threads on the board it is very supportive of those who come on to comment. That said we can’t help everyone and realize any approach will fall short with some.
I like this clarification. It’s good to know there will be a balance of avoiding both. MDDB can get pretty hostile at times and other forums can be scathing too. You may find slightly lower engagement though. It’s the ‘thrill of the hunt’ that keeps people coming back sometimes.
One little suggestion. The support forum seems overly fragmented. That leads to lots of clicks/back-clicks to navigate around and may be better as a consolidated forum. No worries if not. Just one opinion among many.
Best of luck with it.
I was reading through the threads over on FAIR Mormon Outreach and one person wrote something like, “I am so thankful that I found this website, I don’t know where else to turn.”
I remember thinking that I too am glad that there are places like FAIR Mormon Outreach that help people in need. Thanks!
YW – that means a lot DBMormon wrote:This is part of FAIR in the sense that 5-7 individuals who are members of FAIR have created the site with FAIR agrreeing to be an umbrella sponsor. The 5-7 individuals are empathetic and have similar experiences as me or have spent a lifetime understanding Faith Crisis
For instance check out the resources
http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resourceshttp://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resources” class=”bbcode_url”> Yes I am one of a handful who created it. It is
notconnected to my podcast. But both serve the same purpose. We are looking for Mentors/Moderators if anyone here feels they can empathize with faith crisis and also are not too fragile in their own journey.
I’ve checked it out and signed up. Most of it REALLY looks useful. BUT — I have to say, without equivocation, that listing “MormonInterpreter” as a resources is just, plain, aboslutely, WRONG. A person struggling with faith issues should avoid MormonInterpeter at any cost — it is toxic to faith and testimony to be called ‘Antichrist’ by a bunch of self-appointed interpreters of mormon scripture.And no mention of StayLDS…. Hmmm.
wayfarer wrote:DBMormon wrote:This is part of FAIR in the sense that 5-7 individuals who are members of FAIR have created the site with FAIR agrreeing to be an umbrella sponsor. The 5-7 individuals are empathetic and have similar experiences as me or have spent a lifetime understanding Faith Crisis
For instance check out the resources
http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resourceshttp://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resources” class=”bbcode_url”> Yes I am one of a handful who created it. It is
notconnected to my podcast. But both serve the same purpose. We are looking for Mentors/Moderators if anyone here feels they can empathize with faith crisis and also are not too fragile in their own journey.
I’ve checked it out and signed up. Most of it REALLY looks useful. BUT — I have to say, without equivocation, that listing “MormonInterpreter” as a resources is just, plain, aboslutely, WRONG. A person struggling with faith issues should avoid MormonInterpeter at any cost — it is toxic to faith and testimony to be called ‘Antichrist’ by a bunch of self-appointed interpreters of mormon scripture.And no mention of StayLDS…. Hmmm.
We are working on this. Good thoughts. I will discuss this with them. Saw your message stating as much. I will see what I can do. I am one person and while empathetic we are diverse. Let me see what I can do
DBMormon wrote:We are working on this. Good thoughts. I will discuss this with them. Saw your message stating as much. I will see what I can do. I am one person and while empathetic we are diverse. Let me see what I can do
I certainly can’t speak for StayLDS. I personally see the pool of people in the midst of faith crisis in the church to be so broad and diverse that there is room for many approaches to help. I would love if we could refer people to each site as they might naturally gravitate to the approach that fits them best. However, I know that the spectrum of opinions at StayLDS is pretty open and tends to stray from orthodoxy – so I could imagine some of the classic FAIR folks looking at us with suspicion.
I am thinking that if linking to StayLDS is not a viable option right now then perhaps “Faces East” would be more approachable. “Faces East” as I understand it is for spouses of people who have lost faith in the church and tends to be more orthodox.
And for heaven sakes stop calling wayfarer the anti-christ…. you’ll blow his cover!
:wtf: :think: 😆 (you know it’s a little funny
DBMormon wrote:wayfarer wrote:DBMormon wrote:This is part of FAIR in the sense that 5-7 individuals who are members of FAIR have created the site with FAIR agrreeing to be an umbrella sponsor. The 5-7 individuals are empathetic and have similar experiences as me or have spent a lifetime understanding Faith Crisis
For instance check out the resources
http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/faith-crisis-101” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resourceshttp://www.fairmormonoutreach.org/resources” class=”bbcode_url”> Yes I am one of a handful who created it. It is
notconnected to my podcast. But both serve the same purpose. We are looking for Mentors/Moderators if anyone here feels they can empathize with faith crisis and also are not too fragile in their own journey.
I’ve checked it out and signed up. Most of it REALLY looks useful. BUT — I have to say, without equivocation, that listing “MormonInterpreter” as a resources is just, plain, aboslutely, WRONG. A person struggling with faith issues should avoid MormonInterpeter at any cost — it is toxic to faith and testimony to be called ‘Antichrist’ by a bunch of self-appointed interpreters of mormon scripture.And no mention of StayLDS…. Hmmm.
We are working on this. Good thoughts. I will discuss this with them. Saw your message stating as much. I will see what I can do. I am one person and while empathetic we are diverse. Let me see what I can do
For what it’s worth… I think there’s a balance to be struck. I appreciate what Wayfarer is saying and agree that certain articles on mormoninterpreter.com are written very negatively towards those of a middle way.
But… I don’t think FMO is designed for people wanting a middle way. I think they want faith promoting answers to put the boogie man back in the box. They want a place to reassure them, mend or support the mental shelf through discussion or reading supportive resources (sorry if that sounds condescending).
As such, mormonstories and even staylds is not suitable for all people concerned about LDS intellectual/historical issues. And some articles on MI are helpful to provide evidences for and answers to evidences against. The knowledge that ‘someone smarter than me’ (Royal Skousen or Brant Gardner for example) has checked it and said it’s fine can be enough for a lot of people. Maybe staylds is an option to PM to people who seem beyond the apologetic answers. But FMO is still an apologetics message board, just one without the agressive-dismissives that troll MDDB.
Like I said… FWIW…
mackay11 wrote:For what it’s worth… I think there’s a balance to be struck. I appreciate what Wayfarer is saying and agree that certain articles on mormoninterpreter.com are written very negatively towards those of a middle way.
But… I don’t think FMO is designed for people wanting a middle way. I think they want faith promoting answers to put the boogie man back in the box. They want a place to reassure them, mend or support the mental shelf through discussion or reading supportive resources (sorry if that sounds condescending).
Very insightful. what i find odd is the the villification and fear expressed when anything less than literal belief is expressed. somehow my comments are viewed on as attacking those who “know” that the book of mormon is historical. Am I so lacking in self-aawareness that I cannot see how my words injure people who believe otherwise? perhaps.the LDS church and doctrine seems to do two things for me: one, it defines a worldview where humans are divine, and two, it provides certainty on things unknowable. I love the worldview, but find a feeling of certainty in things unknown to be dangerous. As the church moved more toward Christian fundamentalist beliefs n the 20th century, the divinely humanist worldview was largely lost, while the certainty in fundamentalist dogma has strengthened to being a requirement. I sense an overwhelming contempt for anyone that expresses certainty that we don’t know, and who sees faithful not-knowing as desirable to certainty. such paradoxical thinking is not for everyone, sure, but is it worthy of contempt?
mackay11 wrote:As such, mormonstories and even staylds is not suitable for all people concerned about LDS intellectual/historical issues. And some articles on MI are helpful to provide evidences for and answers to evidences against. The knowledge that ‘someone smarter than me’ (Royal Skousen or Brant Gardner for example) has checked it and said it’s fine can be enough for a lot of people. Maybe staylds is an option to PM to people who seem beyond the apologetic answers. But FMO is still an apologetics message board, just one without the agressive-dismissives that troll MDDB.
Like I said… FWIW…
Sadly, you are probably correct.wayfarer wrote:mackay11 wrote:For what it’s worth… I think there’s a balance to be struck. I appreciate what Wayfarer is saying and agree that certain articles on mormoninterpreter.com are written very negatively towards those of a middle way.
But… I don’t think FMO is designed for people wanting a middle way. I think they want faith promoting answers to put the boogie man back in the box. They want a place to reassure them, mend or support the mental shelf through discussion or reading supportive resources (sorry if that sounds condescending).
Very insightful. what i find odd is the the villification and fear expressed when anything less than literal belief is expressed. somehow my comments are viewed on as attacking those who “know” that the book of mormon is historical. Am I so lacking in self-aawareness that I cannot see how my words injure people who believe otherwise? perhaps.the LDS church and doctrine seems to do two things for me: one, it defines a worldview where humans are divine, and two, it provides certainty on things unknowable. I love the worldview, but find a feeling of certainty in things unknown to be dangerous. As the church moved more toward Christian fundamentalist beliefs n the 20th century, the divinely humanist worldview was largely lost, while the certainty in fundamentalist dogma has strengthened to being a requirement. I sense an overwhelming contempt for anyone that expresses certainty that we don’t know, and who sees faithful not-knowing as desirable to certainty. such paradoxical thinking is not for everyone, sure, but is it worthy of contempt?
mackay11 wrote:As such, mormonstories and even staylds is not suitable for all people concerned about LDS intellectual/historical issues. And some articles on MI are helpful to provide evidences for and answers to evidences against. The knowledge that ‘someone smarter than me’ (Royal Skousen or Brant Gardner for example) has checked it and said it’s fine can be enough for a lot of people. Maybe staylds is an option to PM to people who seem beyond the apologetic answers. But FMO is still an apologetics message board, just one without the agressive-dismissives that troll MDDB.
Like I said… FWIW…
Sadly, you are probably correct.Hi wayfarer. I hesitated to comment in the first instance as I didn’t want to come across as criticising your suggestions. You’ve done more than most to make the prospect of “middle way” seem viable and acceptable. Maybe, one day, even appreciated. I’m also aware that you’ve had more mud slung at you than most by the MI crowd.
I think you’re right in what you’ve said. As the Givenses so aptly demonstrated, Joseph successfully distilled many of the most beautiful concepts and ‘truths’ that were fragmented around different parts of philosophy and religion.
I also agree that the Zionist/Elitist/Absolutist Mormon attitudes of the later decades have, in some part, undone that good.
I’ve learned to accept that while I don’t, some people need the safety net, or the absolutes that Mormonism gives. FMO seems very much designed to keep the safety net in place.
The absolutes don’t work for me anymore. But I know that I still need to mind what I say at church as I don’t want to be with suspicion.
Wayfarer, I hope you will continue to participate. Both individuals who criticized your view were warned to not let it continue. Also All the mentors (members of Fair ,including John Lynch) want your view on there and have no problem with your framework as long as you work within the ideas from the email I sent you. Otherwise that board needs you. None of the mentors have said a single thing that leads to me feeling they don’t want you there. In fact I probably asked the most questions about your participation there with them behind the scenes wehn you came on.
Again hope you stay.
Bill
DBMormon wrote:Wayfarer, I hope you will continue to participate. Both individuals who criticized your view were warned to not let it continue. Also All the mentors (members of Fair ,including John Lynch) want your view on there and have no problem with your framework as long as you work within the ideas from the email I sent you. Otherwise that board needs you.
None of the mentors have said a single thing that leads to me feeling they don’t want you there. In fact I probably asked the most questions about your participation there with them behind the scenes wehn you came on.
Again hope you stay.
Bill
People who take a position to criticise my point of view really don’t much bother me, although I really wonder how people coming to an “outreach” site are justified in saying that someone is less of a mormon because they believe differently. In other words, the two posters stated something, and with your advice in your private message, i have no issue handling such criticism directly. responding to their criticism can help bring out views, as long as it remains in control.Sites where people agree tend not to garner interest.
wayfarer wrote:DBMormon wrote:Wayfarer, I hope you will continue to participate. Both individuals who criticized your view were warned to not let it continue. Also All the mentors (members of Fair ,including John Lynch) want your view on there and have no problem with your framework as long as you work within the ideas from the email I sent you. Otherwise that board needs you.
None of the mentors have said a single thing that leads to me feeling they don’t want you there. In fact I probably asked the most questions about your participation there with them behind the scenes wehn you came on.
Again hope you stay.
Bill
People who take a position to criticise my point of view really don’t much bother me, although I really wonder how people coming to an “outreach” site are justified in saying that someone is less of a mormon because they believe differently. In other words, the two posters stated something, and with your advice in your private message, i have no issue handling such criticism directly. responding to their criticism can help bring out views, as long as it remains in control.Sites where people agree tend not to garner interest.
This last sentence is true and one reason why staylds will always be a smaller community… We’re so darned nice to each other.
wayfarer wrote:DBMormon wrote:Wayfarer, I hope you will continue to participate. Both individuals who criticized your view were warned to not let it continue. Also All the mentors (members of Fair ,including John Lynch) want your view on there and have no problem with your framework as long as you work within the ideas from the email I sent you. Otherwise that board needs you.
None of the mentors have said a single thing that leads to me feeling they don’t want you there. In fact I probably asked the most questions about your participation there with them behind the scenes wehn you came on.
Again hope you stay.
Bill
People who take a position to criticise my point of view really don’t much bother me, although I really wonder how people coming to an “outreach” site are justified in saying that someone is less of a mormon because they believe differently. In other words, the two posters stated something, and with your advice in your private message, i have no issue handling such criticism directly. responding to their criticism can help bring out views, as long as it remains in control.Sites where people agree tend not to garner interest.
I sent them a private message as well stating in no uncertain terms that your view was welcome and they were to cease and desist with their contentious behavior. We aslo have been talking behind the scenes how to better handle going forward. You will likely see a post added to that thread backing you up.
Wayfarer, Are there any articles or books of individuals who believe like you explaining their view of how God used an unhistorical BOM to create the restoration? I would be fascinated to read more of how you put your view together
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