- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Hi, I’m new here. I’ve been lurking around for a number of months as I work through my own faith crisis and now transition. I feel like I’m very settled in my new beliefs and I’ve managed to mostly blend in with other Mormons. For instance, today at church I can’t even count how many times my non-truth detector went off in my head, but I’ve learned to roll with it and appreciate people wherever they’re at on the faith spectrum. Very few people know even half of my thoughts regarding the church and its truth claims because I am not yet capable of navigating that obstacle course without doing myself real damage among my many Mormon relationships. So I’ve become pretty good at avoiding outing myself and not getting into situations where I could be forced to share my true thoughts. Its not easy and I don’t know what the future holds, but I’ve managed thus far.
However, the one area in life where this is impossible is in my marriage. For the most part, my wife knows where I’m at and is trying her best to be loving and understanding. She’s definitely a TBM though so there is no way that she can actually understand what I’m experiencing. I don’t share damning church history or push her to go where I’ve gone for a number of reasons. Even if she did dive in to the controversies I think she would still come out just as orthodox as she was before and still lamenting my sorry state. As an orthodox member I don’t believe its possible for her to look at me without seeing something defective even if she won’t admit it to herself. Its like I’ve caught a disease she’s hoping I’ll be cured from if she prays hard enough. If I would just pray a little more and study my scriptures more fervently all will be good. Every argument we have comes back to the simple question, “But what if it ISN’T true??” This is a question she just simply can’t consider. So when I feel like we’re just barely getting somewhere the 100% truth claims rear their ugly head and we go crashing back down.
My question is how to make this work? I’ve seen some couples interviewed on Mormon Stories that do make it work, but it seems like the orthodox spouse always has to give up a little orthodoxy. They have to say, “Yeah, there is a chance this isn’t true. I disagree, but I see what you mean.” But when that spouse sticks to their guns and can’t come up with a single solution that doesn’t involve the Sunday School answers what do you do?
If you have any advice or even some threads to read or a podcast I could listen to I’d really appreciate the help.
🙂 Thanks for posting, and welcome. I wish there was an easy piece of advice proven to work in all sitautions….but all situations are unique to the individuals.
But in general, my advice is to work as a couple to support each other in love and respect and caring for each other. You care and cherish her faith and belief, as much as possible, remind her you want to do that.
I think there are ways to focus on the common ground, and perhaps try to look beyond the church. There are more things in life and marriage than faith in church. There is faith in love, and the family, and eternal family and hopes and dreams.
Try to avoid the fights on what you disagree on with faith, and focus on the things you do agree on.
Maybe you could try to approach things like it reads in Mark 9:24…confirm you believe in some things, and ask for help in the unbelief.
I think most spouses worry less if you give them less to worry about. You still volunteer to serve people, love people, clean the church (as examples) of ways you are devoted to gospel principles, even if there are areas you don’t believe. Try to establish that faith isn’t knowledge of all things, and so we try to keep working on things while making sure she knows you are committed to her and the family and are doing your best with a pure heart.
It is a process, and there are no guarantees it can work out. But…focus on love, not fear. As much as possible.
Thanks, that’s helpful. I do focus too much on my fears. My wife is really struggling with this so she seeks out advice from more and more people. Today I’m pretty sure she confided in the bishop’s wife.
I think the other thing that really grates on me is the fact that my wife thinks I’m broken. Rather than trust me or consider the possibility that I’m not damaged she relies on what the church says about someone like me. I guess that says something about our relationship and/or the level of her conviction. I can’t control that so all I can do is try to not mope about it and be the best person I can be.
Hi, Glad you’re here. The circumstances are different for everyone, but many here know your frustration. And some know it from the other side, too. I just try to make the fence between my husband and me as short as it can be. Yes, we’re divided if we stand right at the fence, but there’s all this open land around us where we can roam and flow. I try to spend more time and energy there now.
I’m about five years into this, and I’m hoping to have a deeper talk this summer about how lonely it is to not talk about something so important to me. I think it might go pretty well, but it’s coming after years of reassurance and constancy. (We’ve talked in the past, but it’s all been on a very short fuse and something we walk away from pretty quickly.)
I do think it would be quite fair to set some boundaries, though, regarding talking with others/friends at church. On the other hand, she’s stressed out and needing someone.
I hope being here helps. Welcome.
Editing to add: Easy to say, but be happy. (See Campbell line below about radiating.) We talk alot in the church about our “countenances.” Things improved for me when I was unafraid of my new beliefs and let it show.
K-Dizzle wrote:My wife is really struggling with this so she seeks out advice from more and more people. Today I’m pretty sure she confided in the bishop’s wife.
Sorry. That can be rough.The only thought I could offer is that the bishop has likely seen others in that situation, as it is more and more common and talked about. I find most bishops are supportive of helping couples stay together and be loving and accepting, even though there is that roulette that is at play…dont know what your bishop is like.
Even still…I stick to my guns…I think the bishop won’t worry too much when you follow Ann’s advice and let your goodness and love shine. it may not be easy to feel they may be judging…but I also have heard many in that situation, and many bishops just want to help and provide support.
Even if they know from your wife…they may not over-react to it as you fear they might.
I think this is part of the journey. Working through these things, and not losing yourself to the fear.
Where I think it gets hardest is when there are lines in the sand. Such as a temple recommend. There are specifics to meet that standard. And that leaves choices on how you approach it and how you feel about your approach to live at peace with yourself. But I think there are ways to navigate it. If you stay focused on the goal…and the gospel principles…and accept the church is what it is.
First, welcome to the forum. I am no expert but I was once in the same situation (and still am to some extent). When my faith crisis hit full on I didn’t handle it well with my TBM wife. I think the advice already given is sound. As someone who didn’t do it so well in the beginning, I’ll say that I made two major mistakes. 1) I was too focused on what I didn’t believe and not focused enough on what I did believe – the common ground we had. 2) I “dumped” on her, trying to release all my frustrations at once. To be fair, I do think I should have been able to talk about my deepest feelings with my eternal companion and best friend, but such is not the case. Of course it’s also not fair to her as she felt attacked and rightly so.
Post transition, my wife knows I have doubts. She does not know the depth of my doubts. She also knows I believe in God and Christ, that I hold a temple recommend, etc., and that I am the same loving husband and father I was when we married.
That’s all I’ve got for you.
I’ve got a couple ideas: 1) Imagine what your ideal church experience would be like. Then pretend that’s what it is like.
2) When it isn’t actually like that, be a cultural anthropologist, noting the odd but interesting behaviors of the natives. You’re observing, taking notes, but it’s not a reflection on you. See if you can understand their strange ways.
3) Charles Taylor talks a lot about open vs. closed belief systems. You can be a TBM or a non-believing heretic while being either closed or open about it. He’s referring to how you view your worldview. Do you allow for the possibility that you are wrong? Are you open to the idea that others may be right about things and you may be wrong? Are you open to the idea that your views may change in time? If not, then you probably have a closed loop belief system. That’s his one caution about people of faith and people who renounce faith–that they are two sides of the same coin–a closed loop belief system. Don’t be like that, and help your wife to be open also. An open person is someone you can live with, no matter what their beliefs are.
I am the other spouse. I always open that way because I try to give advice from that point of view. My husband and I have been navigating this for nearly a decade. In that time I have found myself moving from the deep traditional model he and I held to something more nuanced. However, even with that I still connect more to religion than he does. We also both know staunch believers whose lives unexpectedly tipped. So you never know.
I support all the advice given so far. There really is no magic formula or wand or anything. The countenance thing is huge deal. In Mormondom we judge by what we see or what makes us feel good. If you are warm, happy, relaxed it may go miles toward keeping things calm. Are there specific things you can do for her to help her feel supported? Where do you stand religiously (not just LDS but in general) are you okay with Jesus Christ, Godheads, the Bible? This can help.
For most believers the pronouncement of a faith transition feels like an amputation without meds.
For your sake keep finding people you can talk to, even just to vent on tough days. That will go along way to keeping you from blowing up at her.
Good luck.
Welcome, K-Dizzle. I’m sorry that you both are going through this. There is no easy solution and it’s a long and lonely path for each of you in different ways. My advice is as follows: – don’t argue about belief.
– don’t seek her consent, approval, or validation for your non-belief. She can’t give it, so don’t ask it. Instead, recognize that you have different beliefs, and work hard to make your marriage happy completely apart from your different views of the Church.
– seek out and have constructive dialog about your relationship (not your faith). Stay focused on the love you have and hope to have in the future, not on what you have lost. I need and love my wife more now than before my faith crisis. My desire to stay with her has shaped my faith transition.
– reassure her about your core beliefs, and I don’t mean what you believe, but what you believe in (in other words, not about God, JS, the BofM, but about being and doing good, about family, lifestyle, service, love, partnership, fidelity, etc.) When I had these conversations with my believing wife, neither of us knew what to expect next. Was I going to start drinking? I decided that I would not, because I felt that would drive a wedge. Two decades later, I’ve still never had a drink; not because of the Church, but because of us.
I hope for both your sake that you can find a way forward. I hope this site can help you.
Welcome to this forum. I don’t post often but I visit almost every day. This response is along the lines of what you said about your wife thinking you are broken. I worry that my wife thinks that I’m broken and that with my faith transition that I am basically asking for a temple / eternal divorce. E.g a time only marriage because obviously a non believer couldn’t live in the celestial kingdom because he didn’t live up to the covenants he made. This makes me tear up every time I think about it. The idea that she thinks I’m giving up – on purpose- my eternal marriage and my eternal children breaks my heart and causes me tremendous anxiety. She married someone she thought would be her eternal companion and now she believes that’s in serious jeopardy.
My wife knows the extent of my doubts. When I told her she cried all night long. We don’t talk about it often now and, like Ann said, we focus on the things we agree on and which bring us closer together.
I’ve thought about trying drinking because it looks like fun but so far haven’t because of her. I’ve thought about not going to church every Sunday and someday that will probably happen but so far I support her by going every Sunday.
This advice only echoes what others have said, but focus on the things you have in common. Continue to date. Continue to strengthen your relationship and show her your love even if you both think you are broken. Go out of your way to be an exemplary husband and father.
Best wishes. This is a lonely road you and most of us on this forum travel.
Sent from my iPhone
hawkgrrrl wrote:
3) Charles Taylor talks a lot about open vs. closed belief systems. You can be a TBM or a non-believing heretic while being either closed or open about it. He’s referring to how you view your worldview. Do you allow for the possibility that you are wrong? Are you open to the idea that others may be right about things and you may be wrong? Are you open to the idea that your views may change in time? If not, then you probably have a closed loop belief system. That’s his one caution about people of faith and people who renounce faith–that they are two sides of the same coin–a closed loop belief system. Don’t be like that, and help your wife to be open also. An open person is someone you can live with, no matter what their beliefs are.
I very much like this idea. In talking to another person it can be important to acknowledge that they may be right and you yourself may be wrong. Hopefully giving them that much validation can make room for them to do the same for you.
For myself, my DW was treating my FC as a phase and something that I would grow out of. This was so demeaning to me. Finally we had what I believe to be a breakthrough conversation. I recounted how my worldview had been shattered when God did not intervene in an important moment when I expected Him to. I recounted that I had to rebuild my “assumptive reality” based on a new set of assumptions (i.e. that God does not intervene or perhaps only very rarely but even then not in any way that can be counted on). I told her that I was completely open to being wrong but that for my worldview and assumptive reality to change again I would probably need to experience something that would be so miraculous that I just would not be able to explain it in any other way. She seemed to understand that and accept that.
Roy wrote:
For myself, my DW was treating my FC as a phase and something that I would grow out of. This was so demeaning to me. Finally we had what I believe to be a breakthrough conversation….I told her that I was completely open to being wrong but that for my worldview and assumptive reality to change again I would probably need to experience something that would be so miraculous that I just would not be able to explain it in any other way. She seemed to understand that and accept that.
I totally like this, Roy. Thanks for sharing.
That “breakthrough” conversation is the goal…I would think, to finally understanding each other and not demeaning each other. It is interesting to me how difficult that can be sometimes, and how long it can take sometimes, and even sometimes how that never seems to happen.
It sounds like you put a lot of work and effort into trying until there was the breakthrough and your wife was open to listening and caring.
Thanks everybody. A lot of fantastic advice. It’s comforting to know there are people out there who understand and want to help! I’m sure I’ll refer back to this thread often as I try to get better at this whole thing. 
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.