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DBMormon wrote:
A lot goes into this. Leaders take what a previously leader said and feel safe addining to it or sharing it in a way that they endorse, not really reasoning out the end conclusion of their logic.
For instance, The D&C says that the Church when formed in 1830 that that was 1830 years since the birth of our LORD. Now the heading wasn’t unusual as that heading had been given by Joseph scribes on more then one revelation. But leaders took it and ran with it supposing it was Joseph direction that Christ birthday was April 6th.
One thing turns into another and next thing you know we all suppose this the case. Once one strips away the nonsense we see that this wasn’t Joseph’s idea at all and that the scribe added it. It may be Christ’s B-Day but it is only a 1/365 chance
I think expecting someone to “reason out the end conclusion of their logic” may be asking a bit much when you’re talking about a group of men that are in the business of saying what they believe is true and offering advice whether it’s asked for or not. We may believe that it’s God that calls these men to be apostles and prophets but it’s us that grant them the influence they have. One thing I’ve not done is check my brain at the door when I come to church so if I buy into some of the things that are referred to as nonsense, it’s my fault not the preacher. As an aside you may not want to lean too heavy on nonsense as it relates to Elder McConkie and President Smith. There are still those out there that take the proscription on speaking ill of the Lord’s annointed seriously.
I have been giving a lot of thought to faith crisis and transition of late. I’ve seen some say that faith crisis and transition are things to be avoided if at all possible. I am coming to think that faith transition is part of that maturation of faith, and not only should not be avoided, but should be embraced.
I suspect, mackay, that you are a lot more sanguine about faith issues than you were as a hard-line tbm. Such maturity is desparately needed in the church, as all of us will eventually face some sort of faith transition. As cwald said, above, having a BP like you would be very helpful to people who struggle with faith, and in embracing faith transition, we embrace a more universal Way.
Just my take on it.
Cheers!
GBSmith wrote:DBMormon wrote:A lot goes into this. Leaders take what a previously leader said and feel safe addining to it or sharing it in a way that they endorse, not really reasoning out the end conclusion of their logic.
For instance, The D&C says that the Church when formed in 1830 that that was 1830 years since the birth of our LORD. Now the heading wasn’t unusual as that heading had been given by Joseph scribes on more then one revelation. But leaders took it and ran with it supposing it was Joseph direction that Christ birthday was April 6th.
One thing turns into another and next thing you know we all suppose this the case. Once one strips away the nonsense we see that this wasn’t Joseph’s idea at all and that the scribe added it. It may be Christ’s B-Day but it is only a 1/365 chance
I think expecting someone to “reason out the end conclusion of their logic” may be asking a bit much when you’re talking about a group of men that are in the business of saying what they believe is true and offering advice whether it’s asked for or not. We may believe that it’s God that calls these men to be apostles and prophets but it’s us that grant them the influence they have. One thing I’ve not done is check my brain at the door when I come to church so if I buy into some of the things that are referred to as nonsense, it’s my fault not the preacher. As an aside you may not want to lean too heavy on nonsense as it relates to Elder McConkie and President Smith. There are still those out there that take the proscription on speaking ill of the Lord’s annointed seriously.
I love both brethren and appreciate their testimonies and dedication, but I am saying some of what they said, wrote, stood for was nonsense. there is a difference between speaking ill of the Lord’s annointed and speaking ill of their view or stance on a belief or issue.
wayfarer wrote:I have been giving a lot of thought to faith crisis and transition of late.
I’ve seen some say that faith crisis and transition are things to be avoided if at all possible. I am coming to think that faith transition is part of that maturation of faith, and not only should not be avoided, but should be embraced.
I suspect, mackay, that you are a lot more sanguine about faith issues than you were as a hard-line tbm. Such maturity is desparately needed in the church, as all of us will eventually face some sort of faith transition. As cwald said, above, having a BP like you would be very helpful to people who struggle with faith, and in embracing faith transition, we embrace a more universal Way.
Just my take on it.
Cheers!
Before heading back to the UK I’m doing some travelling.
I spent last night at a Buddhist temple in the Chinese bamboo covered mountains.
They have a simple hotel on site. The monks and guests were wonderfully welcoming. Sharing food and chatting with me in their broken English and my even worse Chinese.
This is a place of peace and tranquility. There are no ‘graven images’ here, in a temple complex of over 100 religious statues and deities. They are expressions of God. 1 God with many names and faces.
“Moses 7:35 Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel is my name; and Endless and Eternal is my name, also.”
A generous guest this morning invited me on a tour of each building and deity. Explained a few principles of their worship.
This temple site dates back over 1000 years. I can feel the positive presence of God.
Yesterday evening I climbed to the top of the pagoda that overlooks the community. I’m typing this message from the same place. I prayed and shed a tear as I finally let go. I let go of the paradigm I was raised with and established for myself. It hurt but it also felt enriching.
I choose to worship God and work to better myself within the Mormon community. I recognise it as a valid way. They are my friends, my community and where I fit.
I have loved developing an appreciation for other faiths while living in Asia. It has taught me a simple truth: that God is found in many faiths. Not as diversions or distortions of the ‘one true way’ to God and not as partial truths for those more limited than others, but as equally valid faith practices that each help God’s creations walk the path to godliness.
I believe in a God who knows us so well that he’s able to create a personalised curriculum for each of his children. For some that may be devout, orthodox Mormonism. For others it may Mormonism followed by something else or the same in reverse or something completely different not even touching Christianity.
Whatever your personalised curriculum I look forward to discovering and living mine to the best of my abilities while continuing my association with you.
God is good.
McKay, In many ways I liked your post. As a faithful LDS I too recognize God in more then my faith. I see him working in every faith tradition to bring his children home. I see the LDS path as viable.
While I hold out faith and hope that it’s basic truth claims are factual, I no longer lose sleep over defining the line that separates Historical from mythical, to fraudulent.
I don’t say that as in I am using loopholes to remain, but rather there is no empirical proof to do such, so why lose sleep over something that will nag you till the end of your life. The Church sanctifies me, so I hold on despite the warts. I have warts too and my wife remains with me
As wayfarer says, learning to handle nuance and to go through the dark night of the soul is part of experiencing the mighty change
DBMormon wrote:McKay, In many ways I liked your post.
As a faithful LDS I too recognize God in more then my faith. I see him working in every faith tradition to bring his children home. I see the LDS path as viable.
While I hold out faith and hope that it’s basic truth claims are factual, I no longer lose sleep over defining the line that separates Historical from mythical, to fraudulent.
I don’t say that as in I am using loopholes to remain, but rather there is no empirical proof to do such, so why lose sleep over something that will nag you till the end of your life. The Church sanctifies me, so I hold on despite the warts. I have warts too and my wife remains with me
As wayfarer says, learning to handle nuance and to go through the dark night of the soul is part of experiencing the mighty change
Thanks DB, I liked your warts analogy
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