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I’m a little different from many people here at StayLDS because I didn’t get married in the temple. My faith crisis occurred before that, and my loving wife agreed to marry me outside the temple. I haven’t had a temple recommend for over a decade. Yet I find myself thinking about trying to go to the temple again. I don’t know if I can parse the temple recommend questions in a way that encompasses my beliefs and hopes while still allowing a “yes” answer, but I am going to give it a shot here. The questions are: Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father?
Do you have faith in and a testimony of His Son Jesus Christ?
Do you have faith in and a testimony of the Holy Ghost?
Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
First, the unvarnished truth: I am not convinced that there is a higher power of any kind. I haven’t had any personal experience that tilts me towards belief or conviction, let alone knowledge. I am simply uncertain, and I don’t really believe it’s possible to
knowright now. If there is a higher power, I don’t know if it would be eternal or if I could consider it my father. So I can’t claim to believein God the Eternal Father. I also can’t
rule outthe existence of God. There are things I can’t explain (consciousness, NDEs, spiritual experiences that people close to me have had and believe come from God, miracles that I can’t absolutely rule out as being mundane). There is so much that science has yet to discover. I can’t rule out the possibility that science may never be able to explain everything—that maybe there is some realm of reality that is qualitatively different enough that it’s untouchable by science. I also can’t rule out the possibility that science may even uncover God. I’m left with a small amount of hope—a desire for certain things I
wantto be true. This isn’t the kind of hope I often hear described by church leaders—to hear them explain hope, it’s little different from conviction or belief. To me, this hope is more of a wish—a yearning. I want to believe that we are eternal beings and that there is an afterlife with my loved ones. I want there to be a Fatherly higher power who knows me and can help me continue to grow and progress. I want there to be a Christ-like being who can help me make up for my mistakes and wants me to love and care for others. I want there to be a Holy-Ghost-like connection to those beings in my life right now. I am not at all convinced that those things are true, but I hope they are. I have grown to like and even accept the idea of faith both as a principle of action (“keeping faith” with or “being faithful” to an ideal) and as a principle of hope (because acting in accordance with an ideal implies that you hope or want it to be true, regardless of your actual level of conviction). In that sense, if I have faith in God the Eternal Father, it would mean that I hope a Fatherly higher power exists and that I will consistently act in accordance with my hopes for what that being is like. In that sense, I could claim to have faith, and I could answer the temple recommend questions with “yes.”
The “testimony” part is harder. To me, to have a testimony of something means that I am willing to serve as a witness that something is true. I can’t witness to the truth of anything. My hopes and my nascent faith are not conviction or knowledge. I can’t say I believe in God. My best is a hope in God.
Yet even if I could work around the “testimony” part somehow, I can’t really convince myself that it’s good enough. There’s a voice in my head telling me that my definitions are simply rationalizations borne of the familial and cultural pressure I feel to go to the temple. When I look deep inside myself, I don’t feel any need to go to the temple. I don’t really believe it will make me a better person or have any difference in my personal life. My primary motivation for going is because I know it will make my wife and parents happy for my family to be sealed—not because of a personal, inner desire to go. Maybe that desire to make my family happy could be viewed as an altruistic, loving gesture—but that just doesn’t feel quite good enough for some reason. I feel like having a personal desire to go is an important part of the equation. And I would want to feel fully authentic about going, which I don’t right now.
As you point out, faith certainly is not a knowledge, and may not be much more than a hope. Pres. Uchtdorf said:
Quote:Faith is to hope for things which are not seen but which are true
That said, I do get your desire to be authentic and I think many struggle with this. I think the temple recommend questions are purposely vague and broad so as to allow all that could possibly take part in the experience may do so. I know that sounds a bit orthodox in some ways, but I also bet I could find more orthodox members who would vehemently deny they are vague and that they are very black and white. The point is, I think it is up to our own understanding. Very much like the oft discussed issue of tithing, you must come to your own ideal that you can live with. Personally I do feel comfortable with answering “yes” without more than the hope – sometimes a very feeble hope – that I have.
None of the questions ask whether or not we knowthat _____. It sounds like you’ve already worked past the “have faith” portion of the question. My own personal take. If I have a
desireto go to the temple that desire tells me that I have enough faith to answer the faith based questions in the TR in the affirmative. That’s my mustard seed. I must have faith if I want to go to the temple, otherwise why would I bother subjecting myself to the process? …and a testimony of…
Quote:To me, to have a testimony of something means that I am willing to serve as a witness that something is true.
In a court of law the prosecution brings in their expert to testify why something
isthe case, the defense brings in their expert to testify why it is notthe case, and vice versa. Hopefully both experts feel like they are telling the truth. Even though they may be at odds they are both testifying, giving their interpretation of their truth. Do you have faith in and
a testimonyof God the Eternal Father? There’s no expectation of what exactly that testimony entails. It could be a simple “here’s what I think about god today, it’s not much, but that’s all I can say right now.” That’s a testimony, no?
Paraphrase: your testimony doesn’t need to be this tall to enter.
Daeruin wrote:
I’m left with a small amount of hope—a desire for certain things Iwantto be true. This isn’t the kind of hope I often hear described by church leaders—to hear them explain hope, it’s little different from conviction or belief. To me, this hope is more of a wish—a yearning. I want to believe that we are eternal beings and that there is an afterlife with my loved ones. I want there to be a Fatherly higher power who knows me and can help me continue to grow and progress. I want there to be a Christ-like being who can help me make up for my mistakes and wants me to love and care for others. I want there to be a Holy-Ghost-like connection to those beings in my life right now. I am not at all convinced that those things are true, but I hope they are… My primary motivation for going is because I know it will make my wife and parents happy for my family to be sealed—not because of a personal, inner desire to go. Maybe that desire to make my family happy could be viewed as an altruistic, loving gesture—but that just doesn’t feel quite good enough for some reason. I feel like having a personal desire to go is an important part of the equation. And I would want to feel fully authentic about going, which I don’t right now.
Daeruin,
IMHO the fact that you desire to go to make your wife and parents happy is enough for me. That you are striving to create and forge a lasting and beautiful relationship with your spouse and despite the uncertainty, the things you can testify of is that your hope in God and Christ is causing you to act in a way to create unity is a beautiful ideal that I know I can strive to be better at.
Not sure if that helps, but hoping you can find peace with whatever you decide.
-SBRed
The answers to these questions:
Quote:Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father?
Do you have faith in and a testimony of His Son Jesus Christ?
Do you have faith in and a testimony of the Holy Ghost?
Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
comes as a result of a process of investigation & personal revelation.
It develops over time. It is not usually a single event.
We are all not on the same level or time table. I believe that God understands that & accepts us as we are.
In my opinion, trying to understand the nature of God in my life, on a personal level should be a life long
adventure. The doctrine & teachings of the church is only part of the journey.
My advice is:
1. find a particle of truth that you can believe in.
2. answer yes to the questions.
3. go to the temple &
4. let God reveal more to you over time.
I think God appreciates sincere efforts to do good things – and going to the temple with a spouse for what would be a huge blessing is a very good thing. Define each answer in your own mind as, “as much as I can right now,” and answer, “Yes.”
I really, really appreciate all the thoughtful and encouraging responses. You’ve all given me things to think about. I wanted to respond to a few individual points that were made. My comments will be focusing on the negative, and I apologize for that. There really were a lot of great ideas that helped me change my perspective, but I need to focus on the areas that I’m still struggling with right now.
DarkJedi wrote:As you point out, faith certainly is not a knowledge, and may not be much more than a hope. Pres. Uchtdorf said:
Quote:Faith is to hope for things which are not seen but which are true
To be honest, I have never liked that definition of faith, because it depends on that last clause: “which are true.” If faith is not knowledge, how do you know the stuff you’re having faith in are true? Requiring the objects of our faith to be true makes it feel too much like blind faith to me. To me, that simply isn’t hope. In his talk
The Infinite Power of HopeQuote:Hope is not knowledge, 17 but rather the abiding trust that the Lord will fulfill His promise to us. It is confidence that if we live according to God’s laws and the words of His prophets now, we will receive desired blessings in the future. 18 It is believing and expecting that our prayers will be answered. It is manifest in confidence, optimism, enthusiasm, and patient perseverance. In the language of the gospel, this hope is sure, unwavering, and active.
In an otherwise amazing talk, I disagree with some of this paragraph. To me, hope is not trust, confidence, or belief; it is not sure. It is wanting, yearning—which leads to optimism, enthusiasm, and perseverance, even in the face of uncertainty. Based on what I hear coming from church headquarters, I doubt that the brethren find mere hope—as I define it—enough to answer the temple recommend questions. I think they expect something more along the lines of Uchtdorf’s quote on hope, which is essentially equivalent to confident belief.
DarkJedi wrote:That said, I do get your desire to be authentic and I think many struggle with this. I think the temple recommend questions are purposely vague and broad so as to allow all that could possibly take part in the experience may do so. I know that sounds a bit orthodox in some ways, but I also bet I could find more orthodox members who would vehemently deny they are vague and that they are very black and white. The point is, I think it is up to our own understanding. Very much like the oft discussed issue of tithing, you must come to your own ideal that you can live with. Personally I do feel comfortable with answering “yes” without more than the hope – sometimes a very feeble hope – that I have.
I am not sure I agree that the questions are purposefully vague. I think they are purposefully simple, to prevent local leaders from engaging in detailed interrogations and requiring nitpicky things that are tangential or not fully endorsed by church headquarters. I also think they intend to put the primary responsibility for understanding and truthfulness on the individual. But I do not think the brethren intended them to be vague or broad. I think they intended them to be orthodox. That’s just my opinion based on what I believe about the brethren, and I understand if others disagree.nibbler wrote:In a court of law the prosecution brings in their expert to testify why something is the case, the defense brings in their expert to testify why it is not the case, and vice versa. Hopefully both experts feel like they are telling the truth. Even though they may be at odds they are both testifying, giving their interpretation of their truth.
I appreciate this. I still take issue with it to a degree. While their testimonies might be at odds, they are still stating things they sincerely believe to be true. I don’t sincerely believe much of anything at this point. I know what I want to be true, but I can’t claim that it IS true. That’s why I still struggle with feeling authentic giving a “yes” answer to the questions.Your experience reminds me of Alma 32 where he talks about how faith begins with a desire to believe. I would go slow. Let your faith grow organically. Do the things you feel will increase the desire to believe. And then to “do His will” as you understand it. For then it will begin to be delicious to you. It will begin to swell within you. You will recognize it as good and light and discernible.
Every one experiences God a bit differently. But I have found that the descriptions of the influence of God as described in Alma 32, Moroni 7 and elsewhere in the scriptures works for me.
I don’t know, Daeruin, I’m sure the argument could be made that the questions are pretty black and white and specific. They certainly could be much more specific if that was the desire/aim. I agree that the questions are written the way they are to keep local leaders from probing beyond where they ought to, but doesn’t that very same wording indicate what the limits are then? A seemingly straightforward question like “do you live the law of chastity” could be much more detailed and include things like masturbation if that was really the desire of the church leadership – but in fact that does not appear to be the desire and local leaders are told not to ask anything beyond that question (unless the member asks a question or in some other way brings it up). More directly to your concerns and questions, question 1 is also not very specific or black and white, for instance. Starting with “Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father…?” How I answer that question now is very different than how I answered it as a TBM – although the word I use (yes) hasn’t changed. I believe there is a God, a Creator, and I believe He loves us (as in God so loved the world) and I can testify of God in just that way, perhaps using more TBM friendly words. As a TBM it also meant that I believe God has a body of flesh and bones and that he is intimately involved in our lives. God hasn’t changed, the question hasn’t changed, but my beliefs have changed – but the answer is still yes. Others here will yet answer the question differently while still using the same word – yes. The interviewees before me and after me each likely have a different view of God than mine and than each other’s.
You know, faith can have its basis in hope for the future. For example, I have faith that although my career get derailed through unemployment, I have what it takes to get myself a different one. I have no evidence of this, it’s just faith borne of hope. So, I think these TR questions are interchangeable with these
1. Do you have hope that there is a God?
2. Do you have hope that Christ lived and atoned for the sins of the world?
3. Do you have hope that….????
Also, think you could interpret the question as:
Do you have even a smidgin of faith or hope that there is a God? [by the way, if everyone had to have a firm, undeniable testimony of God, I think that would empty the temple pretty good – many people are there simply on the basis of hope and faith there is one — hence the question “do you have faith that…”]
Good point, SD. The classic definition of faith is the substance of things hoped for – and that means a lot to me in answering the TR questions.
Old-Timer wrote:Good point, SD.
The classic definition of faith is the substance of things hoped for – and that means a lot to me in answering the TR questions.
Yes. And I like the Uchtdorfian nuance: “Faith is to hope for things which are not seen but which are true.”
Old-Timer wrote:I think God appreciates sincere efforts to do good things – and going to the temple with a spouse for what would be a huge blessing is a very good thing.
Define each answer in your own mind as, “as much as I can right now,” and answer, “Yes.”
I completely agree with all of this.Very much in line with scripture teachings: “Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief.” (Mark 9:24)
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