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I forgot about something I wanted to share. On the way to the temple tonight, we listened to a country song by Lee Brice. He sings “I’m hard to love, hard to love, I don’t make it easy..” and I said to my wife, “This song is about about me.” She agreed. Then I said, “God makes it hard to believe in the church.” She said, “It’s easy for me.” It used to be easy for me, but now I’m thinking about what it would be like if the gold plates were verified by scientists to be of ancient origin and were now sitting in the church museum for all to see. What if Joseph’s life had not been so complex and was always beyond reproach? What if there were no race or plural marriage issues? Would it all be too easy to believe and not require much faith? It is one of the first principles of the gospel, so should I be surprised that faith is required, even great faith?
After getting all wound up over the weekend I was wondering something similar. What if this is our Abrahamic moment. I dislike the concept, but am still considering it. Abraham was asked to have faith in God, against all logic and reason. I feel like I’m asked to do the same. Admittedly the stakes are a lot lower, but I still feel that I need to have faith in spite of the facts. If it is really true, is it made more difficult to sort out wheat and tares? Again, I find the idea of a God planting stumbling blocks in his ‘one true church’ to filter out the weak in faith to be unpalatable. Quote:I find the idea of a God planting stumbling blocks in his ‘one true church’ to filter out the weak in faith to be unpalatable.
Amen! I reject that idea, especially when it pertains to rejecting truth (like the age of the earth, for example). We talk about the incorrect traditions of “their” fathers, but we forget too easily about the incorrect traditions of “our” fathers.
Bottom line: We’re all human.
I don’t see it as God planting stumbling blocks. It’s more like He allows us to be human rather than stepping in to prevent follies. Thank you for your thoughts Shawn. Maybe there is something to a testimony being meant for someone. So if they’re not stumbling blocks placed by God… why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up. Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn’t happen! It makes no sense!
The ‘big doctrine’ is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I’m left with. But I just don’t buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.
mackay11 wrote:So if they’re not stumbling blocks placed by God… why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up.
Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn’t happen! It makes no sense!
The ‘big doctrine’ is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I’m left with. But I just don’t buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.
What if God has given us the power to approach inspiring and divine things through pondering, meditation, prayer, etc. but that power is always enmeshed with our human limitations, assumptions, ego, etc.
Then this filtered inspiration may be twisted and interpreted by various individuals to suit their own purposes (some noble, some not, most a mixture). We can have all the great thinkers of time capable of wondrous concepts and also capable of great harm.
I interpret all the visitations as visions and as visions they are ethereal, shifting, and pliable. They also do not need to represent anything about the order of heaven (unlike what we assume about visitations). They are similar to a dream – that may reveal powerful and inspiring truths but that does not mean that the events of the dream physically transpired.
Also truths can be contradictory. Take the following examples:
“The early bird gets the worm”
“All good things come to those who wait”
Which one of these is true? Can they both be true? NDE (Near Death Experiences) can also express wonderful concepts, yet it would be a mistake to mentally construct a heavenly kingdom complete with rules and hierarchy that are absolute based upon an individual’s NDE. Similarly a vision of the Father and the Son as two separate beings need not mean that they are not One in ways that we cannot fully comprehend – there may be truths to ponder regarding their separateness as well as their Oneness.
mackay11 wrote:So if they’re not stumbling blocks placed by God… why was it such a huge, huge mess of a set-up.
Why is it that the history of the church is so ridiculously screwed up. Why have we got so many things that scream at me: this is not true! It didn’t happen! It makes no sense!
The ‘big doctrine’ is beautiful. If I step back and ignore the detailed brush strokes I love the picture I’m left with. But I just don’t buy the detail. And some days that makes me want to go and do something stupid.
Church history looks quite screwed up when focusing no the controversial issues. That skews perspective.Mostof the history is actually good and simple. But of course there’s more to it. Some things are messed up and they cause big problems. There are arguments for both sides, so it comes down to faith. Bill Reel has said that a couple times at least in his podcasts. I feel your frustration! Believe e I have been there. You have to keep things in perspective and try to see the big picture. Humans are evolving and changing all the time. I mean after all once we thought the earth was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe and that the Black Death was caused by sin. Our church leaders today, in the recent past and in the more distant past are all products of their culture and society. Quakers on the moon, Dinosaur bones placed here by the devil., our brothers and sisters of African decent are cursed. We make the mistake of thinking that the church is black and white but it is not. There are lots of shades of gray. We are learning new things all the time and our ideas as a society are always changing and evolving. Take what you feel is good about the church and let everything else go. Quote:There are lots of shades of gray.
Yeah, at least fifty! lol
Roy wrote:
1) I agree that many things are a matter of perspective – but that is not the same thing as saying that we choose our perspective. For example, I would have a really hard time declaring that the grass is blue and believing it to be blue because my past experience tells me that it is green. I do believe that we can influence our perspective, but our ability to do so is limited and varies between individuals.
One thing I have learned is that my personal Aspie super-power is that my perspective shapes my reality more than most people. It is the reason I was able to scare myself into 3 unsuccessful L&D trips over an 8 day period with my first child, and manage to not “perceive” the contractions to the point where I caught my baby myself in the bathroom. Because I “decided” the contractions weren’t that bad, they weren’t that bad – end of story. This is probably the starkest example of this principle, but I have others collected over the years.
NOTE: I acknowledge the existence of this super-power of mine. I really don’t know what to do with it except point it in the most positive direction I have available at any given time and try not to get thrown backwards by it. It feels like a fire department hose spewing water full-speed not infrequently.
Roy wrote:
2) I think of the faith crisis process as similar to the steps of grief. You don’t get to just opt out. I know for me, in my process that I like to call “assumptive world collapse,” I felt like I was being propelled forward through the process. As though my psyche was reverting to some type of hardwired back-up programming that was rooted below the consiousness. I did have some choices along the way but my choices seemed to either help smooth the process or complicate the process – there was no excape hatch – it had to be lived through.My hope for you is that you cut yourself (and others) some slack. Life is messy and there isn’t any way to “fix” it.
I don’t know what to think of this faith transition. Sometimes it feels like sliding off the side of a steep house but you have a strong belt, a strong rope anchored into a rod on the roof. The view is very scary, and the shingles are very slippery in some places – but as long as you don’t unlatch the belt from around the waist or disconnect the rope from the belt latch – eventually the world should stop spinning and lost ground regained…
AND it would be a lot scarier if I didn’t have this board as my lifeline and belt latch connecting me to the concept(s) of and behind God.
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