Feeling the spirit elsewhere than the mormon church

[Anonymous]

So i’ve been struggling a little bit with what happened yesterday.

I’m still going to my local ward in wherever I happen to be living at the time and don’t plan on leaving the church but yesterday I also went to church with a friend who invited me. It was non-denominational and what I’d consider a “mega-church” that has a big auditorium type setup for seating. It’s come as you are and so lots of people in shorts and various outfits. They have what’s essentially a rock band playing church music. So quite a bit different than the mormon church.

Anyways, I liked the message and agreed with the majority of what was said. I can’t say I felt the spirit based on anything that was said (VERY rarely can I say I do at the mormon church) but music has always had a powerful effect on me. While the type of music is far different than lds hymns the words are still beautiful and speak of God and Christ. And during one of the songs I felt what I’d call the “spirit”. That’s caused me to think a lot since then.

I’d be silly to believe we can’t feel the spirit at any church besides the mormon church so I’m not saying that but it made me question if I’m really feeling the spirit at all. Am I just feeling good about the message or agreeing with it or just liking the song and that inner peace is what I’m calling the spirit? If that’s the case then am I really feeling the spirit at all or is it just me telling myself I’m feeling the spirit because I have good feelings? How do I really know what’s coming from me and what’s truly the spirit?

[Anonymous]

I think it’s a universal truth that you can “feel the spirit” when it’s music. Because, music.

That is all.

[Anonymous]

This comment will unintentionally sound very matter of fact but…

What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from the spirit? What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from you? It could be some combination, internal feelings validated by the spirit or spiritual feelings validated by you. If you felt good does it matter where the feelings came from? Is one source more valid or authoritative than another? Would identifying the source make a difference in what you intend to do about those feelings?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not challenging you or anything. I just thought I’d fire off a few questions. Junk food for thought.

[Anonymous]

unsure wrote:

I’d be silly to believe we can’t feel the spirit at any church besides the mormon church so I’m not saying that but it made me question if I’m really feeling the spirit at all. Am I just feeling good about the message or agreeing with it or just liking the song and that inner peace is what I’m calling the spirit? If that’s the case then am I really feeling the spirit at all or is it just me telling myself I’m feeling the spirit because I have good feelings? How do I really know what’s coming from me and what’s truly the spirit?

And therein is the keystone of my faith crisis. I don’t know the answers to your questions. I do wholeheartedly believe the spirit can be felt anywhere at any time, that Mormons have no monopoly on the spirit and that the “gift of the Holy Ghost” is not all it’s purported to be. That said, I most often feel what I think is the spirit during music but it is not limited to music. The second most common time is when I am alone in nature.

[Anonymous]

For me “feeling the spirit” can be as simple as taking my dog for a walk in the country or playing with my GrandKids.

Watching them experience complete joy & happiness in the moment can be completely spiritual.

Talking with my children as adults or equals and remembering the journey.

Also, talking with close friends or family that I’ve known for a lifetime can be spiritual.

It can be interpreted as renewing a pre existent relationship. (maybe?)

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

And therein is the keystone of my faith crisis. I don’t know the answers to your questions. I do wholeheartedly believe the spirit can be felt anywhere at any time, that Mormons have no monopoly on the spirit and that the “gift of the Holy Ghost” is not all it’s purported to be. That said, I most often feel what I think is the spirit during music but it is not limited to music. The second most common time is when I am alone in nature.

I was about to respond, but I was wondering how I could answer the specific question asked. I too find some types of music really change the way I feel.

[Anonymous]

I had a spiritual experience in my bedroom (don’t laugh at how that sounds) when I was praying — it was the textbook “overcome with the Spirit” experience.

It convinced me to believe in God when I was 15.

Then I went on a high school trip and we stopped at St. Anne De Beaupres — a Catholic church in Quebec, Canada that was the site of many miracles. The walls are adorned with tons of leg braces and other aids people discarded after being healed there. I took a moment to pray by myself in a pew and had the same kind of “overcome with the Spirit” sensation I had in my bedroom while praying.

So, the LDS church does not have an exclusive on the Spirit. You can feel it anywhere there is goodness, truth, or emotionally touching experiences. I know how to teach with it — and at one time, was almost able to invite it for the majority of people by using specific methods and techniques. And I have seen other pastors such as Joel Osteen help people feel the Spirit through his teachings, his prosperity gospel, and his stories.

The spirit is everwhere, not just in the LDS church. In fact, there are times when the way we do things in our church restrains the spirit….

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

The spirit is everwhere, not just in the LDS church. In fact, there are times when the way we do things in our church restrains the spirit….

This is an especially good point. I don’t know if this is what you meant by it, but my missionary son and I have spent several email exchanges over whether exact obedience is necessary to teach with the spirit. Most mission presidents seem to teach the idea that exact obedience, including to mission rules, is a necessity and without it a missionary can’t possible be effective because of lack of the Spirit. My own MP all those decades ago was guilty of the same teaching. My other RM son and I have both told him it’s hogwash – some of the most effective missionaries are those who are flagrant rule breakers (but not necessarily commandment breakers) and many a missionary has been as strictly obedient as can be and met with very little success. I think the same sort of thing often comes across the pulpit (including the GC pulpit). Such teachings can hinder individuals from feeling the Spirit only because they think they can’t because they are not “worthy.” I believe if the Spirit needs or wants to talk to you, it can and will.

[Anonymous]

DJ,

I think you and your son are spot on. My husband saw the same thing on his mission. Missionaries who broke rules would get many baptisms, while the missionaries who followed the rules very strictly, would get none, or very few. He said he saw it break a lot of the missionaries who were rule followers because they had been told rule following would bring people to Christ, but then would very clearly see the opposite happening. One of my husband’s companions was well known in the mission field at the time for being a bad companion. He would break a lot of rules and he was a gross roommate to live with. But they were sent to an area that either had never had a baptism, or hadn’t had one in a very very long time (can’t remember which), and this unwanted companion who broke rules, got multiple baptisms in that area.

[Anonymous]

Even the Book of Mormon says that **anything that invites to do good** is of God.

Our theology is WAY more universal than our culture, and I am grateful for that ability to interpret/critique culture through a more inclusive theological lens. Isolation breeds fundamentalism, and we have been breaking out of severe isolation only for about 50 years or less. I know how hard this is in our personal lives, but “give it time” is sound historical advice for a church still in its adolescence.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

This comment will unintentionally sound very matter of fact but…

What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from the spirit? What would it mean to you if those feelings were coming from you? It could be some combination, internal feelings validated by the spirit or spiritual feelings validated by you. If you felt good does it matter where the feelings came from? Is one source more valid or authoritative than another? Would identifying the source make a difference in what you intend to do about those feelings?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not challenging you or anything. I just thought I’d fire off a few questions. Junk food for thought.

Good questions. I’m not sure I really have the answers to those questions. I guess I want to feel like I know they are coming from the spirit so I’m getting a confirmation that things are true and it’s not just my inner self feeling good. I don’t mind at all being challenged so fire away.

DarkJedi wrote:

And therein is the keystone of my faith crisis. I don’t know the answers to your questions. I do wholeheartedly believe the spirit can be felt anywhere at any time, that Mormons have no monopoly on the spirit and that the “gift of the Holy Ghost” is not all it’s purported to be. That said, I most often feel what I think is the spirit during music but it is not limited to music. The second most common time is when I am alone in nature.

This sounds a lot like me. For me there is something deeply spiritual about going out into nature away from everyone and just soaking it in. I really feel close to God when I do that. I don’t mind doing it with others but it’s a lot easier to control the peace and quiet when it’s just you alone.

After thinking about it some more I think part of my issue was feeling like, I’m going through a faith crisis so why allow me to feel the spirit elsewhere and cause further confusion. I don’t know. That’s not the best way to say it but I’m not coming up with the words right now.

[Anonymous]

To help you understand and clarify truth, which helps growth occur.

If eternal progression is the goal, that has to happen – over and over and over again for time and all eternity.

[Anonymous]

unsure wrote:

After thinking about it some more I think part of my issue was feeling like, I’m going through a faith crisis so why allow me to feel the spirit elsewhere and cause further confusion. I don’t know. That’s not the best way to say it but I’m not coming up with the words right now..

Perhaps because that is exactly what your soul needs to see in order to move forward in your faith, because you likely cannot move back to how you believed things before. Putting toothpaste back in the tube is almost impossible.

As the familiar Einstein quote goes:

Quote:

We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them.

Now that you can see the Spirit outside of church…what does that tell you about God’s love for his children, including you? Including imperfect bishops? Including imperfect church policies?

Sometimes God gives us the spirit despite us.

I have been to other churches and been blown away by some sermons about familiar stories in the NT but with such a different take on it I wondered why God’s true church didn’t inspire me with such stories. But to be honest…there were other things like how they passed a collection plate around and induced guilt to give publicly in front of others that really turned me off.

I think it was a mixed bag as I visited other churches. Some good, some bad. :think: Kinda like my experience in my ward. Mixed bag. Not ultimately better. Not absolutely worse.

I imagine other churches would mostly go away if people in their congregations weren’t having some spiritual experiences. That makes sense. As Ray said, we should seek goodness and truth wherever we can find it…and mormons don’t have a monopoly on it…but we’ve got some good things that keep me going back.

I think you may be on to a new “ah-ha” experience…where you can see that the spirit and revelation works differently than you used to think it worked. And that learning helps us pull through our faith crisis, and leads to more Stage 5 Conjunctive Faith. It is why I think of the things in that thread on Faith Crises [here]

Have you ever read this essay: “Believest thou…?”: Faith, Cognitive Dissonance, and the Psychology of Religious Experience

It’s an oldy, but a goodie.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Heber – I haven’t read that. Will do so tonight.

[Anonymous]

What is the spirit? I’m a big crybaby, and I get it from my mother. I first noticed this when I was about 5, and watch a show on TV called “The Little Match Girl” I remember crying during the show. I also cry during chick flicks (there, I said it). Is this the spirit? It is the exact same feeling I get when listening to an inspiring talk in church, or a beautiful hymn.

So is the “Spirit” testifying to me of the truthfulness of “The Notebook”, or is my DNA such that I’m going to cry at tender moments, and it has nothing to do with the “sprit”? And if this is the case, isn’t our conversion process unethical?

[Author]

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