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I find that the main reason I still cling to the church is honestly community. I like that I have a community of people who have generally good morals and try to become better. And this is really selfish but when things go horribly, I like knowing that I have a whole community of people that will be there for us as best they can. Our ward is wonderful. My husband has also admitted that he thinks if he could find somewhere else that had this good of a community and somewhere that would be consistently giving him opportunities to become a better person (becoming better is a huge part of his personality) that he would probably leave the church for that place. My thoughts are, is community worth staying for? I feel like it is at the moment, but I also haven’t put a lot of focus into finding another ‘community’ for us. If any of you have found community elsewhere, where did you find it? We don’t have any family nearby so we can’t use family. That’s another reason it’s nice to have the church to help in an emergency because we don’t have any family here and all our friends are at church. Any thoughts? In the old West, town atheists often attended church in order to support the community – and have common ground to be included in the dominant conversations throughout the week. Sometimes, I think we over-complicate lots of things.
Old Timer wrote:In the old West, town atheists often attended church in order to support the community – and have common ground to be included in the dominant conversations throughout the week.
Sometimes, I think we over-complicate lots of things.
I wonder if this same situation occurred in Nauvoo with the early church.
Always Thinking wrote:My thoughts are, is community worth staying for?
Communities in general or a specific community like the church? The answer is going to be different for different people. For some that answer will be yes, for others the answer will be no.
Always Thinking wrote:I feel like it is at the moment, but I also haven’t put a lot of focus into finding another ‘community’ for us.
It sounds like your ward is working for you.
People are different. Different enough to where I wonder whether there could be one community (in this case a church) that would work for absolutely everyone. In that sense I’d expect some to remain to interact with a community that works for them and others to find a different community.
It sounds like a part of your question is related to whether you should take a vacation from your community to see if there are others that work better for you? It wouldn’t hurt. I did this thing where I’d go to some other church one Sunday per month, just for the experience. It was fun. I felt I got more out of my Sunday by doing that than I would have if I attended every LDS church meeting during the month. I even ended up revisiting one particular church every week (on a weekday).
A community doesn’t have to be a church either. You can find communal belonging in any group, make close friends that you can rely on in a book club, a juggling club, a fight club, ect. The similar interest can serve as an ice breaker, just like it can with doctrines at a church.
Lack of community is one reason I’m not a big LDS attendee now. It was being shut out of the community when I asked for a release, harsh treatment from other leaders (nasty notes about me distributed entirely to the whole leadership), and uncaring stake and top ward leaders that pushed me over the edge. I think if I really enjoyed being part of the community, I never would have receded into semi-activity or started my own non-profit so I can be of service there. The binding and gagging of my daughter by other kids was another factor that led to feelings of not being part of the community too…
So, yes, I believe that being part of a community is a good reason to stay. Good communities are hard to find, so if you have one in your Ward, cling to it like gold. It’s a great find.
And sadly, if I ever mentioned that to the leaders in power, I would be met with comments that I need to be more stalwart in my testimony, that it’s all my fault, or some other factor that puts responsibility squarely in my lap, and my lap only. Which is another reason I’m not as big on it now.
Sometimes, the community needs to take responsibility for its own warts and apologize.
My advice to anyone struggling is that if you have a wonderful ward, stick with it. If you have a bad ward, do what you can to make it a wonderful ward. If that works, then stick with it.
If you have a bad ward, and you can’t make it a wonderful ward, ignore it.
If you can’t do that, all bets are off.
Your ward doesn’t signify your relationship to the gospel, but it really is your relationship to the church. Some wards are toxic. You can’t let that toxicity get into your life.
For me it is a cost benefit analysis. After my faith crisis what I perceived to be the benefits of my church membership changed. I responded by reducing the costs (specifically by ceasing to pay tithing). This and other reductions in costs caused us to be less and less included in the community. I do not think anyone did this on purpose, we are just no longer part of the inner circle of the ward. Now my family attends church sporadically while I work most Sundays. However, I am the bear den leader on Wednesday nights and maintain a marginal connection to the LDS community. It appears sustainable.
We have also increased our participation in other churches and the wider community. I think of this as supplementing or diversifying our spirituality and sense of community.
Always Thinking wrote:If any of you have found community elsewhere, where did you find it?
I have not found community elsewhere that I prefer to go. I have found many great individuals in other religions and they love their community also. I think missionaries are finding some people looking for community, as much as anything else, for their lives.I find good people at church, in almost every ward I’ve been to. More good people than bad. I just avoid the bad.
Is it enough to be the only reason to stay? I say, Yes. Perhaps boundaries get redrawn and I get more independent, but it is important to me to keep connected, and so I return to the church community that is my tribe. It helps me become the person I think I should be. I have no need to spend energy looking for something I am satisfied with that I already have. I find it more worth my time to find ways to navigate within the community I am in.
Heber13 wrote:Always Thinking wrote:If any of you have found community elsewhere, where did you find it?
I created my own. I started a number of successful music groups that I book into places around town. We are together a lot, and they are my friends, and we make money together. WE often perform for free if it’s a good cause, and we support each other in getting better at playing our instruments, writing music, etcetera. It’s very rewarding.
I also started a non-profit, and, tired of the half-hearted dutiful efforts from so many members at church, I have developed ways of screening people so when they commit, they really commit. So, I am surrounded by people who have interests common to mine, are good-hearted, and work hard together. Exactly my kind of community.
The church community — they are still good people. Better in terms of caring about relationships than the secular organizations I tried before ultimately creating my own organization. At the same time, like Roy, I find the costs outweigh the benefits.
I have to confess, my joy quotient has gone up dramatically since I got on this new plan. The church is still important to me, but like Roy, I am not in the inner circle any longer. And quite frankly, I’m happier this way.
Always Thinking wrote:If any of you have found community elsewhere, where did you find it?
Heber13 wrote:I return to the church community that is my tribe….. I find it more worth my time to find ways to navigate within the community I am in.
There are barriers to enter and barriers to exit in communities. The LDS church has obvious and less obvious barriers. Do you have family and ancestors in the church? Did you serve a mission? Get the YW medallion? Get married in the temple? When you go on a ward campout and everyone starts singing some primary song without providing the lyrics – do you know the words to the song? These are all barriers to feeling like you truly belong to the community. Of course the price for membership has already been paid and can be considered a sunk cost – but going elsewhere may incur exit costs as well as entry costs with the new community.
As I have explored other religions and other churches, none have jumped out at me as our new home community.
For this reason, I have chosen to live the remainder of my life and raise my family straddling multiple groups/communities. The drawback of this is that we will never be considered as fully committed insiders in any one group. The benefit is that we really do diversify our social support network. If everyone in our ward suddenly stopped talking to us it would not be overly traumatic.
Roy — I think you mean that if everyone in your Ward stopped talking to you it would NOT be overly traumatic — right? Because you have these other support groups behind you? I see the point. I like the concept of entry and exit barriers. The entry barriers are not that high to get into our church — you do have to commit to no coffee, tea, alcohol, extra marital sex, tithing, but it’s a commitment, not something you have to do for a year to prove yourself.
But the exit barriers are very high if you have a temple marriage, committed relatives etcetera, or you live in the Mormon populated areas. I hear it can affect your employment etcetera…. I am fortunate in that my biological family would be thrilled if I wasn’t a Mormon any longer, but it would kill my marriage and my relationship with my daughter.
These other support communities are great though…really love the diversification concept Roy has presented.
I think it is hard to find a community with the support structure that a ward provides. It really is one of the aspects of the church that I still feel is inspired. That said, wards vary greatly and you never really know what you are going to get. I have built a group of friends outside of my ward, in addition to the ones inside, and it has made a big difference. We Mormons become very insular and have a tendency to only be friends with other Mormons, which makes us feel even more dependent on our wards. I enjoy the safety net of my ward, especially now that I have found a few like-minded people and don’t feel so alone there, but it really helps to build strong friendships outside of the church (without the hidden agenda of trying to convert them!). These friends have come through reaching out and meeting the parents of my children’s friends and coworkers. When all of your free time isn’t taken up with church and church callings, you have some time to invest in these other friendships. It really does make life richer. SilentDawning wrote:Roy — I think you mean that if everyone in your Ward stopped talking to you it would NOT be overly traumatic — right? Because you have these other support groups behind you?
Yes, thank you. It is fixed now.
SilentDawning wrote:I see the point. I like the concept of entry and exit barriers. The entry barriers are not that high to get into our church — you do have to commit to no coffee, tea, alcohol, extra marital sex, tithing, but it’s a commitment, not something you have to do for a year to prove yourself.
I actually see those as the more obvious barriers to entry. There are other barriers to feeling like you belong. If a 30 something convert to the church gets asked where he served his mission he might feel that he does not belong – if only slightly. If during a VT visit 2 of the sisters reminisce about girls camp and the third wheel sister (who for some reason did not go to girl’s camp) may feel like she does not fully belong.
Part of the sense of belonging that we feel from the community is that it is shorthand for a lifetime of common LDS experiences. Not everyone has that lifetime of shared LDS experiences and it might make them feel as though they are not quite part of the inner circle. Maybe barriers to entry is not the right term for what I am looking for. Maybe “degrees of belonging” would be a better fit.
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