finding the meaning?

[Anonymous]

what brings me here?

my name is eddie. i live in boise. i am a 36 year old, single father, of 3 beautiful young daughters who live with me. and my faith is currently in crisis. or struggle. or something….

when my wife of 13 years left me and my daughters 3 years ago all my instincts and a lifetime of training and tradition kicked in. i ran to the church and my bishop as we do. and they were there for me and mine, big time. and i love and am forever grateful to my ward for that. how they loved my girls as their own. and looked out for them and me. yet the seeds of my discontent were started then too. and as my little family’s lives settled into new patterns and grew accustomed to difficult changes and their mommy never being around, those seeds grew.

so much of what i had heard as anti-mormon sentiment as a young man or missionary, which i never gave a 2nd thought to, so strong was my testimony right? right. those things began to fester.

i am currently in a state of feeling somewhat betrayed by our faith. how certain aspects of our history are sanitized to present this image of prophets who are biblical in their purity and wisdom and virtue.. and perhaps my main issue there is my own–too high expectations for leaders who are divinely led… or something.

i read somewhere long ago how in north america, the divorce rate in the church was same as outside it. like 2% difference, which was within statistical margin of error. or something. and as my wife left me and our little girls and walked away from the church and our temple marriage, i got to thinking…

why? why did i pray? i know and understand agency. i get that. so praying and feeling the confirmation to marry her, it does not take away hers or my agency. so what then, was the purpose? the meaning?

i loved her. i wanted to be with her. i went to god about marrying her, not him to me. and if it was my idea, but the odds of divorce are same? then what was point? if our faith professes to provide more joy than any other, yet i have equal odds of divorce, even if i served a mission and pray and go to church and live my covenants and on and on and on…

what did it mean? she left. and whenever something good in life happens, we praise god. whenever something bad happens, we blame it on mankind or mortality or whatever… so my wife leaving was my fault or responsibility, and that of my wife. our responsibility. so then.. why did i pray? why get married in temple at all? if people outside our faith will still have chance, in this life or next… if me being sealed does not guarantee anything… if someone can marry outside the covenant and perhaps there is hope they convert in next life… then why pray? why temple marriage? why the urgency? what did it mean??

as fast as our church grows, the human population grows ever faster than that. so if i am damned, at least i have a lot of company.

i have felt the spirit in my life. often. potently. but i realize now that whatever and whenever i felt it, someone was there at a young age to tell me what it meant. and it is the meaning i have lost.

there are other questions i have… i have a gay friend who has a better, more loving home life than i do. and their is no place for her or her partner or daughter in our faith it seems. at least, not a full place, a complete and joyful place.

but all those other questions are secondary. it is meaning i am seeking. the why. the reason. the meaning or purpose of it.

everyone i know does not understand this. the all assume i must have some secret sin or done something i need to confess. even my bishop seems to wonder about that. yet i live the “rules” of our faith. though my heart is not in it.

i admit, i no longer want to wear my garment… because each time i put them on or take them off in my daily routines, for the last 3 years since my wife left us… all i see is an image of her, taking them off, to be with other men. and that image that i cannot get out is poison to me.

i need to find the meaning and some peace. this church, weaker than we like to admit, is still a great church and wonderful faith. but …

but…

i feel utterly alone in my quest for meaning. and i don’t even know how to phrase all i am feeling lately. disconnect? disillusionment? betrayal? … if anyone who sees this post has words to help, please, please, i am a man in a desert… in desperate need of water…

–eddie in boise

[Anonymous]

Hi Mrtoad, although I do not know you I can sympathize with what you are going trough. In my own life, I have seemingly lost nearly everything to keep and follow the commandment and spirit. There are a great many things I went through and such betrayal by those closest to me I carry a great many secrets about many people that I can not share much. But I want you to know I have been down that road nearly all my life. The irony of it all is that my answer(wether right or not) was that it was to make me stronger fir even rough roads ahead(which didn’t make me feel any better especially given the pain and lose of various things and people) but was a possible reason why.

The paradox is that god already knows what is in yor heart anyway so why pray? Well I like to think that it is for our personal benefit, it often times helps us to feel better or closer to him even if he doesn’t answer. Almost like talking to a friend who sits beside you but doesn’t say anything and just listens yet you often feel better even so.

Yes there ate other possible explanations, but I like to think of the god I worship as not so petty everyday rituals just for his own satisfaction. The paradox of free agency. Yes I believe something can be meant to be(which is to say god liking choices you made or with whom)but it is still up to both people. Both deserve to be happy.

I’m sorry I can’t articulate all my thoughts at the moment. But as a person that has been though all that I have as long as I have I can tell you one thing. It gets easier and you never know what the future holds. Ours is not a life where a get to dictate our situation, it’s how we react to it that makes us who we are.

I would like to say that how I view it after reading and learning muchnofmthe oral Torah. If you could rewind time and see the old prophets, you would see a more human men then the way it is written or romanticized about. We tend to romantize our own histories a great deal in all cultures. Great men, but still human. Remember how people wax strong on the era of yore? When was that……what era…exactly? Yet great acts of human kindness did in fact take place, just as they do today.

The point it we as children of god(humans) tend to cling to the past by instinct more then the present or future. The journey before is the unknown while the past is known(relatively)embrace the unknown, you never know where god will lead you. Less then 2 years ago I would never have known where I would be today. After 30 years of abuse and betrayal I can honestly say if that is what it took for me to be ready to receive the blessing I have now(my very wonderful fiancé) then I personally can tell you it was worth it to me. I can’t say that’s why it happend, but that is how I choose to look at it.

Sorry for the rambling, I hope it and what others say can help you in some way. God bless.

[Anonymous]

I don’t have a lot of time right now, but I just want to welcome you and say that there are plenty of people here who can relate to what you wrote – directly and in spirit.

It can work out. You can find peace. It takes time – and I have no idea how much. Be patient – and read our archives. There’s a lot there that can be missed if you only participate in current threads.

[Anonymous]

Eddie,

First, welcome. Second, my heart just aches for you. I know the desert well. It’s a tough place to wander. The good news is that sometimes, wandering in the desert is preparation for entering a land flowing with milk and honey.

You are in a tough spot, what with single parenting, trying to recover from the heartbreak of divorce, and a faith crisis on top of it all. That’s a lot of stress to deal with. Working through a faith crisis without added stress is hard enough. With all the burdens you are trying to bear alone (because let’s face it, even with help, the lion’s share of the responsibility is yours), the best words of advice I can offer are SLOW DOWN, BREATHE DEEPLY, and just FOCUS ON THE BASICS. I can remember a time in my life when “endure it well” meant just getting out of bed in the morning. Life can be brutal but pain is a powerful teacher and opposition can open our hearts and minds like no other experience. So, slow down, keep breathing, and just follow your conscience. Let the tedious but less urgent questions sit unattended while you heal and life may just provide answers as it unfolds.

Much love,

Cate

[Anonymous]

thanks guys. and i know you’re right. in my head it all still makes perfect sense and is reasonable and all that… but in my heart, or gut, or whatever…

i’m just not there. and for my kids’ sake, i feel this immense pressure and guilt that i should not be struggling with this. they don’t need this. they’ve been through enough. yet i feel if i keep faking it… i’ll break.

sigh.

thanks guys.

[Anonymous]

Eddie, welcome to our group. Your story is very familiar to alot of us. The details maybe different, the feelings are the same.

My story is summarized at the following link: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3403&start=20

It is dated 30 Jul 2012.

I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that you’re not alone.

The answers to your spiritual questions may not come as quickly as you want them to.

Be patient. If you want to talk further, come back & ask questions.

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Cate!! Patience. you have singled out one of my weaknesses. A lack of patience. Sometimes I can have an almost obsessive ‘need to know now.’

sigh.

mercyngrace wrote:

Eddie,

First, welcome. Second, my heart just aches for you. I know the desert well. It’s a tough place to wander. The good news is that sometimes, wandering in the desert is preparation for entering a land flowing with milk and honey.

You are in a tough spot, what with single parenting, trying to recover from the heartbreak of divorce, and a faith crisis on top of it all. That’s a lot of stress to deal with. Working through a faith crisis without added stress is hard enough. With all the burdens you are trying to bear alone (because let’s face it, even with help, the lion’s share of the responsibility is yours), the best words of advice I can offer are SLOW DOWN, BREATHE DEEPLY, and just FOCUS ON THE BASICS. I can remember a time in my life when “endure it well” meant just getting out of bed in the morning. Life can be brutal but pain is a powerful teacher and opposition can open our hearts and minds like no other experience. So, slow down, keep breathing, and just follow your conscience. Let the tedious but less urgent questions sit unattended while you heal and life may just provide answers as it unfolds.

Much love,

Cate

[Anonymous]

Quote:

i feel this immense pressure and guilt that i should not be struggling with this.

One of the most important steps is a clear recognition that there is absolutely nothing “wrong” with struggling with this – simply because you can’t avoid it. Just as the best name for God is “I AM”, often the best answer to something is simply, “It is”. That recognition won’t eliminate anything automatically, even the guilt you feel right away, but it is important to recognize unrealistic expectations and learn to know when they are hitting “in the moment”.

On a very practical note, my wife started writing a weekly blessing list on her personal blog a few years ago. Despite the struggles in her life, which aren’t few for her, that has forced her to look back and “count her blessings” regularly. What she has discovered over the past few years is that knowing she would be writing such a post has made her more aware of the blessings as they happen – which has given her the ability to recall them in the moments of hardest struggle – which has given a degree of perspective she didn’t have before she started compiling her blessing lists. She still struggles with some things that are her own “thorns of the flesh”, but she is able to break out of those struggles more quickly and even avoid them at times.

However you can do it, counting your many blessings and naming them one-by-one is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

when my wife of 13 years left me and my daughters 3 years ago all my instincts and a lifetime of training and tradition kicked in. i ran to the church and my bishop as we do. and they were there for me and mine, big time. and i love and am forever grateful to my ward for that.

The church is incredible in its ability to rally around families. It is one of the things the church is viewed as doing better than other churches, for good reason. And you are a part of that community for life. Walter Kirn’s article talked about that as well – it was a great story.

Quote:

so much of what i had heard as anti-mormon sentiment as a young man or missionary, which i never gave a 2nd thought to, so strong was my testimony right? right. those things began to fester.

I don’t really think that ignoring criticism is the hallmark of faith, but people sure do get that idea.

Quote:

i am currently in a state of feeling somewhat betrayed by our faith. how certain aspects of our history are sanitized to present this image of prophets who are biblical in their purity and wisdom and virtue.. and perhaps my main issue there is my own–too high expectations for leaders who are divinely led… or something.

Unfortunately, I think there are two things at play here: 1) earlier generations (e.g. those currently in their 80s) like heroic narratives in which leaders are perfect and flaws are minor (e.g. works too hard, cares too much), and 2) post-correlation, the church plays to the lowest common denominator, not to an adult audience. The phrase milk before meat is great, but we don’t really do meat. Or at least not much of it. We are raising “children” of God, not “adults” of God. But it’s tough to find the right balance. Not everyone is ready for meat.

Quote:

i read somewhere long ago how in north america, the divorce rate in the church was same as outside it. like 2% difference, which was within statistical margin of error. or something. and as my wife left me and our little girls and walked away from the church and our temple marriage, i got to thinking… why? why did i pray? i know and understand agency. i get that. so praying and feeling the confirmation to marry her, it does not take away hers or my agency. so what then, was the purpose? the meaning?

I think there is a huge problem when we associate “success” in the gospel (or our marriage or our missions or raising children) with our righteousness. When I was on my mission, I had a friend who was on a mission in northern Europe. I was in the highest baptizing mission in Europe at the time. His was one of the lowest. He would beat himself up. Maybe they weren’t working hard enough, praying enough, reading their scriptures enough. He said to me “Wow, you guys must be very righteous and hard working.” I assured him this wasn’t the case. We had missionaries breaking the rules, APs at the beach, zone leaders doing cocaine. There were so many other factors at play – people were just more open to listening to us where we were, and also there were a lot baptized who weren’t locals, and many who fell away. A single measurement can often be misleading.

Quote:

there are other questions i have… i have a gay friend who has a better, more loving home life than i do. and their is no place for her or her partner or daughter in our faith it seems. at least, not a full place, a complete and joyful place.

There are many of us who hope the church is on the cusp of finding a better place on this one.

Quote:

the all assume i must have some secret sin or done something i need to confess. even my bishop seems to wonder about that. yet i live the “rules” of our faith. though my heart is not in it.

A few words of caution: 1) people are often terrible at empathizing. Look at the Job story. They are the worst. They don’t get it. They’re not going to get it unless they’ve been there. So I’m glad you found the site. People here have been there and do get it. 2) You say your heart isn’t in following the rules, but ask yourself why you follow them. I believe from what you’ve said that you followed them to get a reward, and now you didn’t get that reward. That’s a common but misguided (IMO) reason to do something. It’s a “vending machine” approach, and in this case, your candy bar got stuck. You can shake the machine, but it might fall on you, and then you’ll end up in the Darwin Awards which is no place to be. One reason to follow the “rules” (IMO) is because you’re IN the community, so you follow the rules. I don’t see anything wrong with eating potato chips by the swimming pool, but it’s against the rules at my parents’ community, so I don’t do it. Same with Mormonism. All communities have rules. Figure out in your own time how you feel about each rule and the trade-offs of that rule, but for now, if you’re in, be in.

Quote:

i feel utterly alone in my quest for meaning. and i don’t even know how to phrase all i am feeling lately. disconnect? disillusionment? betrayal?

These are common feelings. In your case, I think it’s all wrapped up in the marriage thing. The church issues alone can result in these types of feelings, but I think you’ve got it connected to having felt you earned something through obedience that you didn’t get. Is that right?

[Anonymous]

maybe. it may well be in the reward of it. a what’s in it for me? where’s the happiness and joy? i did what my parents and their parents did …

but it wasn’t always so. just a growing feeling these last 3 years or so, coming to a head. it makes it sound very selfish, doesn’t it? and perhaps it is. and perhaps i am.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

maybe. it may well be in the reward of it. a what’s in it for me? where’s the happiness and joy? i did what my parents and their parents did …

That’s just the depression over the marriage thing. I totally sympathize. Divorce sucks.

Quote:

it makes it sound very selfish, doesn’t it? and perhaps it is. and perhaps i am.

We are all selfish in that we make our choices based on what we think will work for us and what won’t. My only caution was that expecting things to work out for us because of righteousness is kind of arbitrary. The gospel is not quid pro quo. Here’s another example. I have a sister who refuses to take a job, even though her kids are all grown and at one point her husband was out of work for more than 5 years. She was very frustrated one time because in my family, we both have careers, and we haven’t financially struggled like they have. She said she didn’t understand why someone like me (less righteous because I work) would get the blessings (financially) that she feels entitled to have (by choosing not to work). Walk that one through one more time. By her logic, if you are a woman and you don’t work, you should make more money than someone who does work.

In short, you can’t save a marriage by being righteous if your spouse wants out. You can only build a marriage based on your relationship with your spouse, not using your relationship with God as a proxy, no matter what they say in seminary.

[Anonymous]

exactly. exactly. it was all up to me and her the whole time. no different than any other couple, religious or not, temple married or not… god cannot live my marriage by proxy. excellent. true. true.

which brought me to… “why then? why the praying and the temple at all?”

i know, i know. i am circling. and i LOVE how you break my posts down and organize your responses. awesome. love it.

its is what it is, and so it goes… and whats the point? …

i hear what you say. and i agree. with all of it.

and yet. and yet…

sigh.

thanks hawkgirl.

[Anonymous]

We had a sacrament meeting on prayer just recently that was so damaging spiritually, I took the next Sunday off just to recover. Prayer isn’t about getting miracles from God. It’s about who you become in the process of submitting your will to God’s.

There is a great movie about the later years of C.S. Lewis called Shadowlands. In it we watch him experience love and loss in heartbreaking detail. As a man of faith, his loss brings up all kinds of issues, including the efficacy of prayer and the purpose of pain.

At one point the following conversation occurs in which Lewis explains why he prays:

Quote:

Harry: Christopher can scoff, Jack, but I know how hard you’ve been praying; and now God is answering your prayers.

C. S. Lewis: That’s not why I pray, Harry. I pray because I can’t help myself. I pray because I’m helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time, waking and sleeping. It doesn’t change God, it changes me.

I find this has also been my experience.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

exactly. exactly. it was all up to me and her the whole time. no different than any other couple, religious or not, temple married or not… god cannot live my marriage by proxy. excellent. true. true.

which brought me to… “why then? why the praying and the temple at all?”

i know, i know. i am circling. and i LOVE how you break my posts down and organize your responses. awesome. love it.

its is what it is, and so it goes… and whats the point? …

i hear what you say. and i agree. with all of it.

and yet. and yet…

sigh.

Hmm what I have learned is that life is an exersize in futility sometimes. But that as it may, we like to feel “in control” and do things that “increase our odds”. I believe prayer and temple marriage does that for those that want it. It provides a measure of mental security. When it doesn’t work the way we thought(or taught) it would we begin to feel a lose of measure of control in our lives. Did you get temple married just to please god and get rewarded? It doesn’t seem like it from your post. It’s seems to be what you choose and wanted because it made you happy being connected to eternity with her.

It provides a measure security the happiness as a family will last. Like prayer, I think it is important in the sense of feeling mentally secure during this life time(in the great middle of our eternal lives) the time when we feel most helpless and unsecure. There are those that spend their entire life in earnest following “te rules” looking and praying for a eternal companion for which they never find. So does that mean it’s futile? For some people, I personally “feel” life is a exercise in self mastery. Those that have a lot of resistance in this life will be ahead in the curve because of growth there. Those that don’t will have a lot more work to do latter(after the middle of our eternal lives). In in both cases those with a will and desire will both achieve the same end goal. The differnce it seems to me is in being “prepared”.

“the all assume I must have some secret sin or something to confess. Even my bishop seems to wonder about that. Yet I live the “rules” of our faith. Though my heart is not in it”

---

life is about the struggle or journey,—-The effort. Not about the accomplishments. Accomplishments help us to feel better and make us feel we have done something “just”. I find satisfaction in the “reward” of perseverance. The “why” is about acknowledging that sometimes life is beyond our control and just submitting our will to him. Even if we have different visions from god about what it is we should accomplish or be in this life. The “why” is about effort so we are prepared for the afterlife. Making it a less difficult journey then it needs to be from those that aren’t prepared. We can choose on or the other to what makes sense to each of us. I choose to be prepared even if I get nothing out of it in this life.

[Anonymous]

agreed. a lot of this may be about ‘control’ for me. or lack thereof. or rather, a losing of the illusion of control…

and yer right, i did not marry her for rewards. i married her because i wanted to, because i was in love with her and wanted to be with her.

and when she left. loss of control. or the loss of the illusion of it. and your comment is further evidence that perhaps i am simply angry, or bitter, or pissed at god, and because of it, i am finding reasons, or excuses to be angry…

all of which does not make me feel very good about myself. i have never been an angry or hateful or vengeful person. but then, have i ever been truly tempted in my life before the last few years?

perhaps not. perhaps not.

[Author]

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