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I would like to share what I found to be a very nice FPM by Pres. Eyring. Perhaps you could think of me as your unofficial home teacher :wtf: .Quote:There are at least three ways that paying a full tithe in this life prepares us to
feelwhat we need to feel to receive the gift of eternal life. First, [deletion] Our Heavenly Father pours out blessings upon us. Anyone who has consistently paid a full tithe knows that is true. The blessings are sometimes spiritual and sometimes temporal. They are given in the Lord’s time and according to what He knows is best for us.
As those blessings come [and we pay our tithes], our faith is increased that God is the source of everything that is good in our lives. It becomes easier to see that consecration simply recognizes the truth that all of God’s creations are His. [As we pay our tithes]it makes us
feelgratitude that He asks only 10 percent of what He has already given us. So we are better prepared to live the law of consecration when it will be asked of us. Second, all of us who have paid a consistent full tithe
feelgreater confidence in asking God for what we and our families need. He has promised blessings even greater than we can receive when we have been faithful to our covenant to pay our tithes (see Malachi 3:10). So one of the great blessings of tithing is confidence in what the future holds. Whatever our circumstances may be, things will work out for the best. As we keep our promises, He will keep His. A feeling of peace is one of the great blessings of paying a full tithe. Those who have kept the commandment of tithing can testify that the blessing of peace is real and precious. Third, those who pay tithing
feelan increase in their love of God and of all God’s children. That increase of love comes from understanding how the Father uses the tithes we offer to bless people in this world and for eternity. Through His authorized servants, He expends the tithes with great care. The tithe payer helps the Lord build temples, where families can be sealed forever. The tithe payer helps Him send the gospel to people everywhere. The tithe payer helps Him relieve hunger and suffering in His own way through His servants. Any of those servants can tell you how love increased because tithing was used to bless people. And so can the faithful tithe payer.
The italics are in the original. Let me explain the changes I made in brackets. When we were going over this in EQ, the teacher asked if God is going to bless partial tithe payers to which I answered, “Yes.” Confused, he asked me to elaborate. I said that according to Pres. Eyring “God is the source of everything that is good in our lives.” A good thing that comes from God fits the definition of a blessing. The only thing left to do is reframe the question as, “Do partial tithe payers have anything good in their lives?” The answer is yes!
The minor changes in brackets emphasize my point. Rather than say – we pay tithing then get blessings, I find it appropriate to say – we get blessings and we pay tithing. Right or wrong, reframing like this allows us to focus more on the real jewel of the message:
Quote:paying a full tithe in this life prepares us to
feelwhat we need to feelto receive the gift of eternal life. Do not miss the mark in zeal of obedience thumping and quid pro quo promises. The blessings that are so often touted are secondary. It is the ways this behavior might affect your heart and spirit that are the critical factors. Tithing, in this context, becomes a necessary schoolmaster to much nobler principles. And what are those principles? According to Pres. Eyring, they are:
1) Gratitude
2) Confidence/Assurance/Peace
3) Love of God and all God’s children
Tithing was one of the first requirements of Mormonism to undergo extreme scrutiny when I hit my trial of commitment 1.5 years ago. I understand the third blessing — the fact that we paid all that money makes us feel confident that whatever happens in the future, we will be blessed. Many take this to mean we will be Ok financially at some basic level.
However, I asked Brian Johnson about this — whether not holding a TR recommend (not tithing, but the principle is similar) blew away his personal security. He said “No”, that he believes things will work out anyway (correct me if I’m wrong Brian).
I’m starting to feel that way now…that God loves ME and sees well beyond whether I pay every senine when considering whether to bless me with economic success. What I get out of this home teaching message is that paying tithing helps us FEEL a certain way. But there are some who feel that way without even paying tithing, getting their security and confidence from knowing that God’s unconditional love is the source of such blessings, not the LDS brand of tithing obedience.
IMO, the blessing of tithing is the blessing of detachment, plain and simple, a principle attributed to Buddha mostly, but you can hear it in the NT quotations where Jesus is reputed to say to go out without purse or scrip and the lilies of the valley, they toil not neither do they spin, but Solomon in all his glory was never arrayed like one of these. Viewing tithing as “quid pro quo” and “binding the Lord” can actually go the opposite direction of detachment for some people. They feel entitled. They literally “count their blessings,” not to rejoice, but to reconcile their accounts for the sacrifices they’ve made. What Hawk said – word-for-word. hawkgrrrl wrote:IMO, the blessing of tithing is the blessing of detachment, plain and simple, a principle attributed to Buddha mostly, but you can hear it in the NT quotations where Jesus is reputed to say to go out without purse or scrip and the lilies of the valley, they toil not neither do they spin, but Solomon in all his glory was never arrayed like one of these. Viewing tithing as “quid pro quo” and “binding the Lord” can actually go the opposite direction of detachment for some people. They feel entitled. They literally “count their blessings,” not to rejoice, but to reconcile their accounts for the sacrifices they’ve made.
Let’s look at this from a cost-benefit standpoint. Is the cost of giving your wealth away, and wondering if you’ll have enough for retirement, for hard times, for worthwhile pursuits for your children eclipsed by the blessings of “detachment”?
What are the blessings of detachment? And how is being detached better and different from being irresponsible about one’s economic situation?
I do believe detachment is good when a person is SO attached to wealth they are behaving unethically, acting dishonestly, not being reasonably charitable etc, but beyond curbing the weeds of
unhealthy attachmentto wealth, I don’t understand how detachment is a blessing. My elementary study of the Buddha would say that NOT being fixated on wealth would reduce angst because one principle of Buddhism is to stop wanting things. But if you are comfortable with your current state of wealth, and wealth is not causing you angst, why venture down the road of detachment? By the way, I don’t think detachment is part of LDS philosophy about tithing. LDS philosophy is about sacarifice, obedience, building up Zion, holding a TR, and avoiding getting burned at the second coming.
My only answer to your initial questions, SD, is that detachment can occur no matter how much someone makes – or how much they save. It’s the willingness to give it up that is the key – and I agree totally with the disconnect between what I see as the principle of tithing and the way it is seen and presented generally in the Church. That presentation model is the result of the previous desperate need to have it be paid, and once a reasoning (or program) becomes institutionalized (in ANY organization) it is really hard to change it – since it has reached the level of assumption, and assumptions are difficult to alter. I loved how you turned that around in the end Roy. I was reading through the quoted message and getting more and more angst-filled. It was a very nice surprise at the end. SilentDawning wrote:However, I asked Brian Johnston about this — whether not holding a TR recommend (not tithing, but the principle is similar) blew away his personal security. He said “No”, that he believes things will work out anyway (correct me if I’m wrong Brian).
Well, sort of …
🙂 I personally have not had these things prove out in my life experience. I did not receive the blessings I expected when I tithed. Sorry… I don’t know what to say about it except that it didn’t work for me like Pres. Eyring so confidently described. I don’t make any sweeping, universal proofs out of this. It might work for everyone else except me for all I know *shrug*. This type of thinking (expectation) was one of my main breaking issues. When I was checking all the boxes on the checklists (as many as I could) I would indeed ask for righteous things with boldness and confidence, and not get them. I’m not talking about luxury houses, yachts and fancy cars. I asked for just enough to support my family, or commanded my daughter to get better from her illness by the power of the priesthood, or asked for my wife’s heart to be softened to the Gospel.
I don’t think things will always work out anyway. They don’t. I just stopped expecting them to work out, or feeling that God was sending me a message about my worthiness (or his love for me) based on the mundane circumstances of my life. I gave up, got tired, and put down that cross. Good people have bad things happen to them. Bad people get really cool toys and rewards. There isn’t a solid correlation between a lot of what we expect and assume we will get as blessings by being good people. Being a good, loving, compassionate, enlightened, divine person is just it’s own reward. There’s no cookie or trophy except the satisfaction and happiness of being good, even if my life goes to hell in a hand basket. That’s what I see when I look around me. I have not found that God really cares that much about the little details unless we are caring a lot about the little details. Our life (the flowers of the field) will take its course. I am not saying this is true for anyone else but me. It’s what I experience though, so I have to face it as I find it.
I do believe there are blessings from tithing, but not what Pres. Eyring described. I agree with Ray and Hawkgrrrl — the blessing is letting go of the attachments. That is truly a precious blessing to treasure.
OK, thanks everyone — I just read my earlier post and a sentence didn’t make sense, which explains why no one answered it. I have reworded it in case someone wants to take a stab at it… Quote:
Let’s look at this from a cost-benefit standpoint. Is the cost of giving your wealth away, and wondering if you’ll have enough for retirement, for hard times, for worthwhile pursuits for your children (etcetera) eclipsed by the blessings of “detachment”?What are the blessings of detachment? And how is being detached better and different from being irresponsible about one’s economic situation?
SilentDawning wrote:OK, thanks everyone — I just read my earlier post and a sentence didn’t make sense, which explains why no one answered it. I have reworded it in case someone wants to take a stab at it…
Let’s look at this from a cost-benefit standpoint. Is the cost of giving your wealth away, and wondering if you’ll have enough for retirement, for hard times, for worthwhile pursuits for your children (etcetera) eclipsed by the blessings of “detachment”?
What are the blessings of detachment? And how is being detached better and different from being irresponsible about one’s economic situation?
From my perspective Brian’s comments embody the type of detachment we are discussing. It is an ability to recognize problems but not wait until these problems are eradicated before being able to enjoy life. It is also the ability to let go of expectations – expectations about the future, about yourself, about others. I have found that my relationship with certain people can improve as I stop expecting them to be other than what they are. My wife sometimes bemoans the difference between what she wants to do and what would be “Christ-like.” I tell her that she isn’t Christ and that is OK.
I guess that in the context of your question, detachment would be a realization that despite your best efforts you still may not have enough for retirement, hard times, or worthwhile pursuits for your children. Even then your life would have meaning and be meaningful. Perhaps more time should be spent enjoying and cultivating the things that make your life meaningful. I guess if I had to define the blessing of detachment in one sentence from my current understanding it would be “a level of contentment that exists despite individual circumstances.”
I would also like to point out that the “blessing of detachment” seems outside of the scope of the FPM and even contrary to some of the blessings like faith/confidence/assurance that Elder Eyring enumerates.
SilentDawning wrote:By the way, I don’t think detachment is part of LDS philosophy about tithing. LDS philosophy is about sacrifice, obedience, building up Zion, holding a TR, and avoiding getting burned at the second coming.
Indeed, the idea that we pay tithing as a way of letting go of the illusion of control in our lives certainly has a foreign ring to it. A large portion of my former tithing compliance motivation was based on controlling the uncontrollable, of staving off disaster and mayhem when no amount of saving, insurance policies, home security systems, or daily caution could guarantee avoidance.
Quote:Indeed, the idea that we pay tithing as a way of letting go of the illusion of control in our lives certainly has a foreign ring to it. A large portion of my former tithing compliance motivation was based on controlling the uncontrollable, of staving off disaster and mayhem when no amount of saving, insurance policies, home security systems, or daily caution could guarantee avoidance.
Which to me is simply evidence that some Mormons have strayed from the intended meaning of the gospel principle. To the tithe-giver, tithing (like most acts of faith) is about relinquishing control, not about creating a new avenue for control. But a controlling person can certainly reinterpret tithing any way he is so inclined. Real detachment doesn’t mean you relinquish your control and assume that the group will take care of you or that you can bind God to take care of you (two other forms of control). You lower your expectations while you raise your willingness to trust the universe.
I have no problem with tithing, but I don’t like the connotation that it is “fire insurance”. I like the idea that I would freely give to an organization I see as deserving of the money. My biggest problem is the church’s insistence on annual reviews and withholding certain blessings and privileges in our religion unless it is paid in full. I think it would mean a lot more to everyone if they gave anonymously and without any pressure whatsoever. I have received more joy and personal blessings from donating a few hundred to a famine releif fund than I ever have with the 10s of thousands I have given to the church in tithing over the last decade. Brown wrote:My biggest problem is the church’s insistence on annual reviews and withholding certain blessings and privileges in our religion unless it is paid in full. I think it would mean a lot more to everyone if they gave anonymously and without any pressure whatsoever.
My thoughts exactly.
Regarding the “fire insurance” mentality, I really don’t like it – at all. “I Don’t Think of Tithing as Fire Insurance” (
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/03/i-dont-think-of-tithing-as-fire.html Quote:
I Don’t Think of Tithing As Fire InsuranceI believe strongly that every single person on the planet should tithe to something, somehow – and that every member who can’t afford to tithe should do so anyway and then receive assistance from the communal pot. In other words, I believe in the concept of tithing and fast offerings, and I think everyone should make a conscious choice to donate to the “cause” of their conscience. My tithing recipient is the Church, and my lifetime payment of tithing and fast offerings has been a big part of my willingness to accept and not feel bad about receiving church assistance when I was unemployed for far too long and had used up all of our savings. I’ve been on both sides, and I really believe in it.
I believe in the principle, but I believe in it for the earthly benefits. I don’t view it as fire insurance. I don’t begrudge the need to tie it to an eternal reward, but I don’t like to look at it that way. I prefer to see it as a way to bless the greater community in the here and now, rather than as a way to increase my chance for an eternal reward.
Here is the blog article Ray. I read it over and it’s nice to see your thoughts on this.
I too believe it’s good to give money away for certain causes. The part I have a problem with here is giving it away and then having to go to the Church for assistance. For some reason, I can’t seem to accept that anymore. Probably because the two times I went to the Church for help (once to serve a mission, and once for an adoption) the way both situations were handled presented a huge challenge to my testimony. Not sure I can withstand another one of those. And both times above I wasn’t even looking for a handout. So, while I think I agreed fully with the concept you share here during my more innocent days — of tithing and then even being on assistance as a result — I have problems with it now — severely.
It seems odd that tithing trumps self-reliance. The D&C indicates that the Church should stand independent of all things below Heaven. Does it not follow that we, as individuals should too, particularly when the Church is already self-reliant, as far as we know ( fair conclusion, in my view, given the lack of disclosure about its wealth)?
SD, I have NO problem whatsoever with someone working off of actual experiences that are like the ones you describe. The ideal is a two-way street – and the “partnership” breaks down if either party doesn’t fulfill its role as a partner. Iow, if a Bishop won’t help someone who has been a faithful contributor, that contributor has no obligation to continue to contribute as s/he did previously. The compact has been broken; the aggrieved partner has every right to choose how to act, without guilt, as long as that person still understands and practices the principle of communal sharing to the extent possible – even if the recipient community changes.
That’s my heterodox opinion, anyway.
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