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Good post, montereyredfox. The other point is, if you leave the group and don’t speak up, you never learn how many others are sitting in silence just like you, and it can tend to make us think EVERYONE in the group is unchristian, uncivil, or judgmental.
How many times does it happen, when someone says something, others afterwards go out of their way to thank the person and confirm they were thinking the same thing.
Most wards I’ve been to always have very reasonable thinking members, but the loudest ones (often to goofiest
:crazy: ) are the ones we hear from most.Thank you for your posts. Thank you, montereyredfox, I really enjoyed your post and was going to add something but realized that you’d already expressed anything I would mention. I’m not planning on leaving any time soon but mustering the courage to venture into what I previously thought was known territory is a bit frightening.
Zelph, thanks for the Introduction & welcome to the group. You have alot to say. One of the things you said:
Quote:My brother-in-law has/had issues with his faith and that small outward lapse left him as a second class citizen in the eyes of my father-in-law. Yes it is their problem, but I’m not sure how to convey just how much I care about and love my family. Leaving the church would cost me dearly in the things I love the most.
Regarding your brother-in-law, you said that he is treated as a second class citizen by members of your family. Is that the way you treat him too?
Or, do you have to pretend to others that he is “second class”?
It helps me, to look for people who appear to sit on the outside & talk to them. It doesn’t have to be anything profound.
I feel comfortable being on the edge or outside of what others considered “normal”. It hasn’t always been that way.
I’m looking forward to hear more from you.
NQR (Not Quite Right)
Mike from Milton.
Mike wrote:Zelph, thanks for the Introduction & welcome to the group. You have alot to say.
One of the things you said:
Quote:My brother-in-law has/had issues with his faith and that small outward lapse left him as a second class citizen in the eyes of my father-in-law. Yes it is their problem, but I’m not sure how to convey just how much I care about and love my family. Leaving the church would cost me dearly in the things I love the most.
Regarding your brother-in-law, you said that he is treated as a second class citizen by members of your family. Is that the way you treat him too?
Or, do you have to pretend to others that he is “second class”?
It helps me, to look for people who appear to sit on the outside & talk to them. It doesn’t have to be anything profound.
I feel comfortable being on the edge or outside of what others considered “normal”. It hasn’t always been that way.
I’m looking forward to hear more from you.
NQR (Not Quite Right)
Mike from Milton.
My father-in-law specifically. However my father-in-law is very much a McConkie mormon (ie rigid, doctrinal, and completely convinced that righteousness has granted him spiritual secrets to which he alone is privy). My brother-in-law is my favorite extended family member by far. I think the original point was that coming out as a non-believer while remaining a cultural mormon would drastically alter the family dynamic.
I need to give a quick update however. In some ways I’ve been able to restructure my belief in such a way that it makes sense for me to continue. I still cannot believe in the spiritual as a separate influence from my own feelings, but some words written by Brigham Young of all people have given me more of a thread to hang on to than I might have previously thought.
Brigham Young wrote:Yet I will say with regard to miracles, there is no such thing save to the ignorant–that is, there never was a result wrought out by God or by any of His creatures without there being a cause for it. There may be results, the causes of which we do not see or understand, and what we call miracles are no more than this–they are the results or effects of causes hidden from our understandings.
Your quote from BY make sense to me too. I think for example “Speaking in tongues” has a completely different meaning today than it did to the early church.
Mike from Milton.
Zelph wrote:Now for the rest. If I were open an honest I would say that I am a closeted atheist that attends the LDS church. Given the breadth of my spiritual experiences I no longer had an issue with historical problems.
Zelph, Although I had posted to this thread, I had not read, until today, your very long posts.Thank you for sharing the stuff you have. I am not so much of a closet atheist, but fully and completely against the theistic definitions found in christianity and in some aspects of mormonism. Yet, to be spiritually attuned, as you obviously are from your experiences, begs the question as to the source of these amazing feelings.
My journey as a spiritual wayfarer has taken me literally around the world: to china, in search of original tao, to india, in search of enlightenment, to the depths of islam, catholicism, protestant christianity, and of course back to mormonism. It’s all good. it’s all bad. it’s just what it is: religion points to something, but it is not that something, and any definition in religion is just speculation as to the nature of whatever it is we might call god or not.
I come back to mormonism because this is home to me: generations of family have lived in this culture, and i find in it enough of what I consider the truth that I stand by my personal, unorthodox way of looking at the faith.
I really appreciate the similarity you express in your point of view, and hope you find joy in your personal journey.
peace.
Zelph wrote:Because of that, I usually avoid Gospel Doctrine class and instead attend gospel principles. I love the earnest faith and real questions asked and I generally try to be an asset in the class.
I like Gospel Principles better too.Usually it’s more applicable to life… more time to discuss the “basics” which are really not basic at all.
Welcome, Zelph.
Zelph, I love your mother! My kind of person! I know I posted and ran, but after a couple years of struggle then living the last year without taking Mormonism into consideration. We decided as a family to resign. My eldest daughter’s baptism or lack thereof was the jumping off point to living a year without listening to mormon advice or guidance. We are much happier.
It’s weird to think about it though. I’m really sad about the fact that as a whole we are much happier. Our marriage is stronger. The sex is better than it has ever been. Just having Sundays to go on family outings has been wonderful.
As we drift more and more distant from the culture and tribe that raised us I keep getting hit by just how weird it all was. It feels like a different life and one I won’t return to.
Sorry guys, we couldn’t stay
2 of my siblings have also left the church in the last couple of years.
Thanks for the update Zelph! I do recommend that you not officially resign in order to leave options open – but I honor and respect your decisions in any case.
I am genuinely happy for you and your family that you have found joy together as a family.
Zelph wrote:I keep getting hit by just how weird it all was.
Yeah, the moving to the desert to live plural marriage because God told them to is definitely strange, tabloid worthy, material.
May God bless you in your journey.
Thank you. I really appreciate it and everyone who chimed in to help and offer advice. Zelph wrote:We are much happier.
It sounds like you are doing well, and choosing what is right for your family. God bless you on your path. It is a good thing to hear your family is better and you’re happier. That is all that is important.Thanks for the update! Hope you finished that engineering degree too ..
Best wishes.
I appreciate the update too. I’m glad you are happy. How have your family reacted to your resignation? That was a key issue in the introduction of this thread. Zelph wrote:It’s weird to think about it though. I’m really sad about the fact that as a whole we are much happier. Our marriage is stronger. The sex is better than it has ever been. Just having Sundays to go on family outings has been wonderful.
That’s what it’s all about IMO, finding that way to be happy.
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