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I just met with my stake president and the meeting went so well! I could not have asked for better. I told him all about my issues with garments and my concerns about sexism in the temple. He understood how garments make me feel better than any man (or woman who has no body image issue with garments) I have ever tried to explain it to. It was as if he could feel what I feel. He couldn’t explain the sexist things in the temple, but he encouraged me to still go through, even of I remained silent during certain covenants and even if I did not wear my garments. He wants to meet with me and the stake patriarch after I go through the temple to discuss it in more depth. I also told him about how a lot of my girlfriends feel the same way. He was shocked because no one had ever told him about this before, and like I said, he totally understood it. I told him that for people who feel this way the garments are more like torture than a symbol of anything good. He said he would love to meet with me again after I go through and some of my friends who are struggling with the same thing, because if this is a bigger issue, maybe we could do something about it.
I don’t know what any one person can do, but I am thrilled with even the possibility of someone taking action because most of my girlfriends go home and cry after they go through the temple. Whether it’s because of garments or sexism, the “pinnacle” of our religion should be an amazing and good experience-not something that makes you depressed.
Thank for sharing this experience. Good local leaders are a tremendous blessing – and, sometimes, having someone who is seen as an authority of some kind who actually listens empathetically and tries to do whatever can be done is all it takes.
it’s great that he had a certain amount of empathy and desire to understand — absolutely fabulous. I wonder what could be done about it on a local level? It does make one wonder… if they could shorten the sleeves from wrist length to present, and divide the garment into two – why can’t they make women’s tops of a camisole style? …and appropriately redesign giving more options all the way around? Quote:It does make one wonder… if they could shorten the sleeves from wrist length to present, and divide the garment into two – why can’t they make women’s tops of a camisole style? …and appropriately redesign giving more options all the way around?
How great would that be?
If not, at the very least, could they take the awful lace off of them? Or at least change the lace pattern, IDK once every 5 years or so?
I couldn’t agree more with what you said about feeling depressed with garments. I have dreaded them from day one. Yes I understand the symbolism but my goodness the amount of extra clothes you have to wear as a woman to keep them in place and covered so the lines don’t show is ridiculous! I feel that if the men had to wear them layered with a jock strap over the top of them and then another pair of boxers on top of all that, garments would change. To men it’s simply another tshirt and boxer briefs that changes nothing of their existing wardrobe. Woman can’t even wear a simple tshirt without layering because of the thinner shirt material, not immodest, just the fabric is to thin. To many women it fundamentally changes how we view ourselves! Not including how unhygienic they are and then throw in nursing on top of it all…..yes if the men had to go through even a half of the discomfort and annoyance women did then the garments would change yet again. Im very very glad that you have found such a caring and open minded bishop! Keep us posted on what happens and please know you are not the only one that struggles with this on many many levels. Yes, there are sexist things in the temple, but there are also things which are positive about women, e.g. women see everything that occurs (unlike freemasonry or elements of Roman Catholicism), and also Eve doesn’t mislead Adam, she’s misled by a man, Lucifer… I was thinking of doing a post about the positive aspects. At least the blood oath is gone and black people are allowed in…
With men in the highest leadership positions, and with a culture of sustaining leaders and teaching personal sacrifice for sacred and spiritual things, I think many things become policy with a sexist-slanted view from men. But as Ray points out, many good leaders have good hearts, and are compassionate, and are wise enough to value what they hear from women on some of these things that don’t even cross their minds.
If I remember right, when Joseph started the temple ceremonies, the garment was given to women to develop according to the instructions Joseph had in his revelations, but the details had to be figured out by the women sewing the garments. Eventually, buttons were removed and lace and ribbon added, as well as other materials, and then the styles changed for practical reasons, as now they continue to do.
The lace was introduced by the Relief Society, and approved by the Priesthood.
It sounds like that is usually how good things happen in the church…and some of the ideas posted above about further changes are good ideas. But they’d need to come from a wife of an Apostle in Salt Lake to be taken seriously by decision makers, IMO. On my mission, that was always how we got things to change…we’d talk to the MP’s wife, she’d get him to agree to it
:shh: …and we’d sustain “his” inspired ideas.Quote:she’s misled by a man, Lucifer.
I never felt like she was misled, but that she figured out what had to be done to progress further, and did it.
Quote:Moses 4: 19
And I, the Lord God, said unto the woman: What is this thing which thou hast done? And the woman said: The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Because she uses the word “beguiled”, it makes me think she reasoned through it and thought it would be best, but actually was tricked into making the right choice. She knew they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. They just didn’t know how to do the deed.
So they were kicked out of the garden, and given coats of skin to cover their nakedness. I bet those were uncomfortable garments!
This is so great to hear. I cried my eyes out for days when I first got garments. They made me feel fat, and even now the fabric bunches up under women’s clothing and leaves many unsightly lines. They are so so ugly. How can something so ugly, that makes me feel so hideous, symbolize my eternal potential or anything positive? I’m thrilled your bishop was so empathtic. I honestly wonder whether change will come or not because, as with female genital mutilation, the older sisters are so invested in the status quo having suffered through them for decades. Hawk girl …you make a very good point about the older women. They forget what it was like to move freely without the constriction of garments. I even had an older visiting teacher say that the reason the garments were so ugly in part was that one would primarily have sex for procreation purposes! Well mission accomplished! It is very very hard to feel attractive while wearing them. As for my husband, let’s just say I get more attention when not wearing them after working out etc.. 
Garments, garments, garments … what i don’t like about garments is how hot wearing them is in summer. summers where i live can get pretty humid and they can get very uncomfortable. if i do ever decide to wear garments again i will have to get the mesh type. the cotton/polyester mix i just find too hot for summer. Thank you for all the posts! It is always great to hear that I’m not alone in this. I have so many friends who struggle with it, but at times I worry that it is just because we are all a similar “type” of woman. Hawkgirl, I am so sorry to hear your experience was bad too. Dax, how long aho did you go through the temple? I literally am planning to go and not wear them. I go through the temple tomorrow. I’m slightly terrified and have had a few anxiety attacks about it in the last few days. I’m more scared for what will come after I go through. The debating,’ do I put on my usual thick strapped tank top to go grocery shopping? Will people see me around and start judging me? Do I change my facebook to make it more “private” so people don’t see me in pictures not wearing my garments?’ That’s just one more issue to add to the pile of my problems with garments-it is something that everyone can see. If you don’t pay your tithing, drink a coffee, or even have an affair, it is far less obvious than not wearing your garments. My fiance doesn’t wear his top most of the time and it’s nbd for a man, because no one can even tell.
Also, Dax, my stake president was shocked when I told him that women had to put on at least three layers of clothing when they wore garments! He had no idea that you couldn’t buy ready to wear clothes that just covered the womens garments.
I really have such a strong opinion against them for so many reasons. One more thing is sex. I am a 29 year old virgin, who has been extremely ‘chaste’ my whole life, and now when I can finally live with my love, I have to wear gross underwear that I feel bad in around him? I know you can wear lingerie when you want to have sex or feel sexy or whatever, but that means that it would always be the woman initiating, otherwise she will be in her garments. I think that is a sad thing. I also think it’s sad that the time your (Dax’s) husband gives her extra attention is when she comes home from the gym. Not a slam on him, but in a normal world that would be when you look the least sexy, not the most sexy.
I know this has turned into a rant, but I feel so strongly that we could achieve the symbolism that the garments are meant to give us without having to making so many of the women in our church feel terrible. I just don’t believe it has to be like this.
I wanted to post some positive things on here too. The meeting I had with my stake president was so inspired, and literally made the decision for me to go through the temple. Still terrified, but I just love that Heavenly Father answered my prayers and like Ray said, it is so nice to have the go ahead from someone I view as an authority.
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