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hawkgrrrl wrote:
They made me feel fat, and even now the fabric bunches up under women’s clothing and leaves many unsightly lines.
Well, I think women get the better deal when it comes to Sunday clothing, but men get the better deal with garments. We all more or less wear the same clothes of a sunday. However we don’t have to wear bras and tights (at least not most of us), which wouldn’t go well with garments.
A friend told me that they were in a fashion design class at BYU and a guest speaker was the MAN in charge of designing women’s garments. I do wish there was a means for people to constructively express their concerns about the design of the garments to people who would really listen. There is so much that could improve them without altering any of the critical elements.
rebeccad wrote:A friend told me that they were in a fashion design class at BYU and a guest speaker was the
MANin charge of designing women’s garments. :wtf: Well, that explains some unnessary parts of womens’ garment tops.
HSAB… I hope your temple trip went well and you were able to feel inspired at least somewhat even if just a small amount. As far as your questions, it has been 12 years since my first temple trip. For the first 3 years I struggled inside each and every day but still wore the garments as required. After so much heartache and frustration my dad,a tbm,recommended to me that I should consider putting garments on my “shelf” and come back to them someday if ever. It was the best advise. I stopped hating garments and was able to get to a place were i could find a compromise that worked for me. I even could start to feel some of symbolism behind them because i wasnt uncomfortable all the time. As far as your worry that others will “know” you are correct. Garments are a quick way to see who is being “true”. I dont wear things that would be completely garment impossible, but i still don’t wear garment length shorts either. If I run into someone from church well that is for me to deal with. I know our culture and accept that I’m going against the norm. I agree with all of your frustrations though, I don’t think men understand how much garments can affect us on so many levels! Find what works for you,whatever that may be,and remember to keep moving forward in your faith process. Keep us posted. I don’t think it is anyone’s business what kind of underwear I have on. Just do what feels right for you…”And let the consequences follow.”
the question states “do you wear garments night and day.” I use to…yep, both night and day…but that doesn’t mean I wore them to bed, to sleep in. It doesn’t ask that and I don’t think it is anyone’s business….and most bishops would agree.
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dax and cwald – great points of view. 1. as cwald noted elsewhere there is no ‘covenant’ to wear the garment — only instructions.
2. the entire point of sacred underwear is a private symbol — not intended in the least to be public notification. The Jews had ‘private’ underwear as well, but as Jesus noted, they enlarged the borders of their garments so as to have strings hanging out of an orthodox man’s undergarment. This is an external symbol: “I’m an orthodox jew”. If I recall correctly, Jesus did not have favorable words for those who took the private covenant public as a mode of display of righteousness. There is a lesson to be learned here.
3. the garment is intended to be a gift from god to man to cover nakedness. It is not intended to be a piece of magic underwear that protects you. “Shield and protection” may have a lot of meanings, but I take none of them literally. Now, when we realize who told us we were naked, then, perhaps, we might realize that the gift was to cover up our own guilt for being naked. this has meaning to me: once we realize that satan’s messages have no meaning or applicability to us, then what is the point of the garment?
Wayfarer, let me share a garment experience with you: i had had my endowments and a few weeks later i awoke from a sleep sometime after midnight. it was in the middle of a lightning and thunderstorm. each time a flash of lightning struck i got this “prompting” (not the holy spirit) to get “naked” or to take off the garments. this happened every lightning strike. it was a manifestation of ole scratch. He spoke to me through my carnal sensitivities. it was a supernatural event. i wasn’t asleep. this really happened. why it happened i don’t know but it happened. it was a testimony to me that the ‘other’ side was well aware of my church life events.
BeLikeChrist wrote:Wayfarer, let me share a garment experience with you:
i had had my endowments and a few weeks later i awoke from a sleep sometime after midnight. it was in the middle of a lightning and thunderstorm. each time a flash of lightning struck i got this “prompting” (not the holy spirit) to get “naked” or to take off the garments. this happened every lightning strike. it was a manifestation of ole scratch. He spoke to me through my carnal sensitivities. it was a supernatural event. i wasn’t asleep. this really happened. why it happened i don’t know but it happened. it was a testimony to me that the ‘other’ side was well aware of my church life events.
I have no doubt that you event happened exactly the way you said. and yes, the other side does not want you to be faithful.but how do you see this as supernatural? if god, according to Section 88 operates according to natural law, certainly satan operates there as well. you felt a presence in your mind and in your heart that you distinguished as being not the holy spirit. to those tuned into their inner feelings, as i am sure you are, such things are part of your nature…
I also have no doubt that the experience happened exactly as you described and was real in every way that matters. I agree completely that symbols can be real and powerful and that abandoning those symbols can be damaging to faith (hope in unseen things). However, when symbols lose their meaning, they also lose their power.
Finding a way to recapture the symbolic meaning is the only way I know to recapture the actual power,and I am open to differing ways to do that. For some, like me, it works best through the constant reminder that occurs with constant wearing of them – but even I remove them regularly at times that other members wouldn’t accept. I won’t get into specific examples, since my point is that doing so at times that make sense to me doesn’t have to be consistent with whatever might make sense for someone else. I have to use the symbolism in whatever way is most meaningful and powerful for me – and I can envision all kinds of variations for others that work like that for them. It’s being free to figure that out individually that is important to me, especially when wearing them constantly causes serious issues in and of itself. In those situations, especially, it is critical to find a way to wear them in such a way and at times that reduces the difficulties and allows the meaning and power to remain – even if most people wouldn’t understand.
I am not currently endowed but will do so before my wedding. I do have 2 concerns with the garments. My first one is symbolism. I don’t know why, but I really don’t have any connection to symbolism of any kind. Something just doesn’t click in my kind to give anything meaning which didn’t originate having a history of meaning in my life and even then I can’t recall myself using symbolism in my own life. An example is the traditions I was raised with or American flag. They have zero meaning to me. There just isn’t a connection there or anything clicking to give it meaning despite me trying. They just appear as something originating that gave their creators meaning but somehow it just doesn’t click to me. I respect others symbolism though. For most my life I have mindlessly doing traditions and symbolism that gave others meaning. I don’t think it was I vein there is just no emotional attachment to someone’s else’s symbols regardless of how much I tired to apply it to my own life. So here I am struggling to give myself an emotional attachment to symbols or things that are suppose to be important to me. I have no problem wearing them, I just can’t force myself to attach emotional value to them though. Is that bad?
The second is working an a environment which I will go a few dozen times a day from outside weather(sometimes over 100F) to a freezer (-10F). Is their a kind of garment that will help me not to get sick from such a continues rapid temperature while wearing them? I really appreciate any responses to this or any experiences with a kind of garments that will lesson the impact of sickness that can result from this.
Quote:I just can’t force myself to attach emotional value to them though. Is that bad?
No. One of my favorite women ever was a Relief Society President in a former ward who really struggled with symbolism, as well. (She was stunned when she was called as RS Pres.) She is a wonderful person; she just doesn’t see things symbolically. She’s a very literal person. There is NOTHING bad about her.
As for the work concern, get something breathable – some kind of mesh. They won’t make a negative difference at all with changes in temperature.
Quote:Forgotten_Charity
The second is working an a environment which I will go a few dozen times a day from outside weather(sometimes over 100F) to a freezer (-10F). Is their a kind of garment that will help me not to get sick from such a continues rapid temperature while wearing them? I really appreciate any responses to this or any experiences with a kind of garments that will lesson the impact of sickness that can result from this.
I have a suggestion that may help. I discovered marino wool for backpacking has a wide temperature range that I’m comfortable wearing just it in temperatures ranging from 60’s to 90’s. It has the advantage of pulling moisture from your skin so that when you go in the freezer, or backpack over a saddle in the mountains, you enter the cold environment with dry skin. If you want to wear an outer shirt or blouse it should be a fabric that doesn’t hold water. Cotton is lousy for this. Of course you will want to put on something more if you’re going to be in the freezer for long
While the Beehive Clothing likely does not carry marino wool, I understand they will adapt fabrics into official G’s. Also I know that in the past people made their own. Don’t know who you go to for permission.
The biggest problem with the material will be to find something in white. I suggest that you should select fabric that blended with synthetic fibers for durability. By itself, marino wool snags fairly easily. It has another advantage in that it does not hold body odors. I have come off a 5 day backpack, in which I have sweated profusely but my wife’s delicate nose cannot detect anything objectionable. Marino wool is non-itchy, so it is perfectly good for underwear. Places to look are stores catering to hikers and backpackers like Kirkhams in SLC, REI.com, Campmor.com, or just google marino wool.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I just can’t force myself to attach emotional value to them though. Is that bad?
No. One of my favorite women ever was a Relief Society President in a former ward who really struggled with symbolism, as well. (She was stunned when she was called as RS Pres.) She is a wonderful person; she just doesn’t see things symbolically. She’s a very literal person. There is NOTHING bad about her.
As for the work concern, get something breathable – some kind of mesh. They won’t make a negative difference at all with changes in temperature.
Thank you Ray.
dash1730 wrote:Quote:Forgotten_Charity
The second is working an a environment which I will go a few dozen times a day from outside weather(sometimes over 100F) to a freezer (-10F). Is their a kind of garment that will help me not to get sick from such a continues rapid temperature while wearing them? I really appreciate any responses to this or any experiences with a kind of garments that will lesson the impact of sickness that can result from this.
I have a suggestion that may help. I discovered marino wool for backpacking has a wide temperature range that I’m comfortable wearing just it in temperatures ranging from 60’s to 90’s. It has the advantage of pulling moisture from your skin so that when you go in the freezer, or backpack over a saddle in the mountains, you enter the cold environment with dry skin. If you want to wear an outer shirt or blouse it should be a fabric that doesn’t hold water. Cotton is lousy for this. Of course you will want to put on something more if you’re going to be in the freezer for long
While the Beehive Clothing likely does not carry marino wool, I understand they will adapt fabrics into official G’s. Also I know that in the past people made their own. Don’t know who you go to for permission.
The biggest problem with the material will be to find something in white. I suggest that you should select fabric that blended with synthetic fibers for durability. By itself, marino wool snags fairly easily. It has another advantage in that it does not hold body odors. I have come off a 5 day backpack, in which I have sweated profusely but my wife’s delicate nose cannot detect anything objectionable. Marino wool is non-itchy, so it is perfectly good for underwear. Places to look are stores catering to hikers and backpackers like Kirkhams in SLC, REI.com, Campmor.com, or just google marino wool.
Thank you for the suggestion Dash. There are days in the summer when I walk in and out quickly because I have to. I feel nauseous and light headed quickly and on a rare occasion pass out from it. I swap outer layers when I can going back and forth. Inside layers is another matter and wearing long Johns hurt a lot instead of helped. Advise is really appreciated. Thank you.
:thumbup: I’m not sure who i woukd ask or what I would do either. I’m willing to pay what I have to to make the situation less stressful on my body.rebeccad wrote:A friend told me that they were in a fashion design class at BYU and a guest speaker was the MAN in charge of designing women’s garments.
I do wish there was a means for people to constructively express their concerns about the design of the garments to people who would really listen. There is so much that could improve them without altering any of the critical elements.
To be fair, there are one or two decent male designers of women’s clothing, and female designers of men’s clothing… but I take your point, because they should reflect gender concerns. We all have lumps and bumps that are not comfortable in garmies.
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