Foundations Rocky!

[Anonymous]

Hi all

I am a convert to the LDS Church, and guess I was what any missionary would call “Golden”

I sucked it all up like a sponge I read, I was very much the scriptorian and studier.

I met a fantastic woman whom I married then got sealed to on the same day (am in the UK)

But I – unfortunately had some problems along the way.

I am a recovering compulsive gambler – and this demon haunted me even as I was preparing for the endownment and everything else

I hid this from myself – and my wife until after we got married BIG mistake I know

I couldnt face the truth

But somehow I got through my recommend interview and went to the temple

This was part 1 of my problem

The S.P. was supposed to have been inspired. So how did he not see through my deceipt to him to my wife and to myself

That was explained that as I had not gambled for some time before the interview and had taken sacrament that it had been forgiven – the gambling fair enough but what about the lying.

Then along with all of this came other doubts from studying regarding

changes in temple stuff

the idea of blood atonemnet

adam-god theory

“Racism” (for want of a better word) in the priesthood

And here is one thing that I personally can NOT get my head around

The guilt trips that I get given for KNOWING not thinking but KNOWING that for my wife and myself

after discussion and PRAYER

that I yes ME the MAN am supposed to go out and work to provide for my family and my wife is supposed to stay at home

Well that just isnt US

My wife is VERY suited to the work place and I am VERY suited to home life

And imho and in our experience (my wifes and mine as a comparison)

having a mother at home does not always “trump” having a workling mother

My mum worked sure but she was still there on school plays, helped me be the kind, non violent, passive, caring person that I am today

My wife had a mum who didnt work, and attended nothing from her school days

Thing is I still get good feelings about a lot of the church beliefs

Such as God having a body

Being with family in the afterlife

and the logical aspect of having a prophet on the earth today

all that is FINE

But to me belief is a house of cards – take one card out the whole thing falls down

Ok thats the basis

I am not an “ex-mo” nor a hater – just kinda inactive at the moment

I am not bitter

Just very very confused and need help

I am having regular not frequent but regular contact with missionarries who are trying to help but sometimes trip up over themselves.

Any input??

[Anonymous]

These are just a few thoughts I have about the questions you raise that might be helpful to you (or might not).

Quote:

The S.P. was supposed to have been inspired. So how did he not see through my deceipt to him to my wife and to myself

That was explained that as I had not gambled for some time before the interview and had taken sacrament that it had been forgiven – the gambling fair enough but what about the lying.

Even if he did see through your deceit (which would be related to his own ability, not necessarily the truthfulness of the church IMO), what is he supposed to do? Call you a liar to your face? Even someone “inspired” (which can include you and me, BTW), can doubt the best course of action. Would it have really made you so much more believing to have been called out for your lie? That would be an extraordinary response on your part, IMO. If I believed someone was lying in these circumstances, I would probably ask them to elaborate at most, but not call them a liar probably ever.

Quote:

changes in temple stuff

the idea of blood atonemnet

adam-god theory

“Racism” (for want of a better word) in the priesthood

Interestingly, these are all from the times of Brigham Young. I find a lot of his stuff unpalatable, too, but I see him as someone with a difficult task (a challenge he met that maybe no one else could have) yet a person who was a product of his time in that he was a sexist and a racist and held to many of the notions from his Protestant upbringing that he should have discarded but seemed too deeply ingrained in him to let go. Which is one reason that I see his influence in many ways being tempered greatly. Blood atonement (which was more introduced in JS’s day) and Adam-God theory were thrown out. Changes in the temple stuff, I’m not sure exactly what you refer to (there are many changes to be considered). Racism was also dropped, albeit a little later than I would have liked.

Quote:

And here is one thing that I personally can NOT get my head around

The guilt trips that I get given for KNOWING not thinking but KNOWING that for my wife and myself

after discussion and PRAYER

that I yes ME the MAN am supposed to go out and work to provide for my family and my wife is supposed to stay at home

Well that just isnt US

My wife is VERY suited to the work place and I am VERY suited to home life

And imho and in our experience (my wifes and mine as a comparison)

having a mother at home does not always “trump” having a workling mother

There are many quotes from apostles & prophets stating that this decision is to be made prayerfully between the husband and wife as a couple and the Lord, regardless of what the stated “ideal” is. I don’t find the stated ideal suitable either. Both my husband and I work. That’s your decision as a couple. Many women at church work. What I think causes the most consternation are those who are doing what doesn’t feel right to them as a couple: SAHMs who don’t want to stay at home but feel they should (some of whom judge women who work uncharitably), couples who need a second income but feel too guilty for both to work, or SAHDs who feel like the only man at church who chooses to stay at home. But, the times they are a-changin’.

[Anonymous]

Hi Magicmusician, your words remind me of a mindset I used to have at a point earlier in my life. Excuse me if I read things into what you wrote, I’m actually remembering my own thoughts from that earlier time more than I’m responding to your specific words – but maybe something will help.

I used to have the impression that “inspiration” or “revelation” was, for lack of a better word, infallible. Like what you said about the SP I thought leaders at any level should have the foresight to prevent erroneous or potentially damaging events from ever happening. I thought the powers of discernment would surely keep a forger from being able to sell “historic documents” to the church. I thought revelation would release the priesthood ban just before society as a whole would be ready to accept it. I thought many other idealistic and frankly “inhuman” things about the way God works with his children on the earth.

Now I see things a little differently. It was not easy to accept at first, but what I personally see as overwhelming evidence has caused me to view God’s dealings with humans as an imperfect science at best. God can want to inspire us, and I believe he does, but as we inhabit this mortal condition I see it as something similar to talking under water. The message just can’t get through as clearly as we would like it to. It comes with being human, there is an element of (fallible) interpretation to anything that God wants to communicate. Since I have embraced this view everything about the church seems easier for me to take. I cherish the good intentions, but I don’t expect anything close to perfection. I like to call this a “non-absolutist” view, in other words the church is not either all-true or all-false. There are degrees of truth in any human organization. The church is good (in my eyes), goodness is truth (one form of truth), and I believe that I and my family will benefit by our participation.

I hope you find some comfort and insight at StayLDS.

[Anonymous]

Fwiw, the Proclamation states very clearly that individual couples are to adapt the general situation described based on individual circumstances – so “The Church” officially does NOT preach against you staying home and your wife working. Local leaders might give you grief, since it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks and local leaders sometimes struggle to accept exceptions, but “The Church” says it’s fine if you feel it is inspired.

The exact quote from the Proclamation is:

Quote:

Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation.

Notice, there are NO specific limitations in that sentence as to the meaning of “other circumstances”. That’s your call – to be made between you, your wife and the Lord.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for making me feel welcome first of all

And thanks for your words everyone they are helpful

Reference “changes in temple stuff” i want to keep it all sacred so its hard to elaborate too much so I will try to be very careful

Certain parts have been ommited at ceratin points in the ceremony

and that is a confusing matter for me

As for the working aspect thank you so much for that quote

its going to help me a lot., I dont know why i missed it before – maybe it was a case of being upset and confused and seeing things through clouded vision

I guess I need to do more study and thought, meditation etc

I am meeting with the missionarries on Saturday so lets see how that goes

[Anonymous]

Hi Magicmusician,

Thanks for taking the time to introduce yourself and tell a part of your life story. I agree with what everyone said so far. Don’t feel bad or guilty that you are asking questions. We are supposed to ask questions and think about things. It sounds like you are going through the tough process of sorting things out for yourself. Don’t worry though, it is healthy. You will be better and stronger for it.

Go ahead and meet with the missionaries. Missionaries have a great spirit about them. I’ll be perfectly blunt though. They have great enthusiasm and idealistic faith, but they are 20 years old. They will have almost zero practical, adult life experience… They are very unlikely to be familiar with controversial topics in the Church. That is fine. Their purpose is to preach the Gospel. Their youthful enthusiasm and zeal are the perfect qualities for that job. I was there once too, a long time ago …. hehe. Feel free to supplement your questioning here too.

Welcome to the group, and don’t beat yourself up too much for not being perfect.

[Author]

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