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wayfarer wrote:
Word of Wisdom has numerous allegations in conflict with science, and the modern interpretation is even worse….Don’t try to get me tangled up in another WoW thread Wayfarer. You know how much trouble I get in when you start down this road.
🙂 cwald wrote:wayfarer wrote:
Word of Wisdom has numerous allegations in conflict with science, and the modern interpretation is even worse….Don’t try to get me tangled up in another WoW thread Wayfarer. You know how much trouble I get in when you start down this road.
🙂
That is not my point. It is simply an example: it is pure folk remedy that tobacco is useful for all sick cattle, for example– it is unscientific, and in conflict with truth.We can accept that JS was inspired, yet understand that his revelations were influenced by prevailing folk wisdom.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:My question is must a person in today’s church be forced to put blind faith in certain teachings and traditions if science (especially personal) has learned something different?
Absolutely not – especially since even the apostles haven’t agreed on lots of things over the years.
Quote:Can we still hold TR by believing science so long as they have proved it and putting faith in the rest that has not been proven?
Absolutely. I’m an example of that.
Thank you Ray. That gives me hope and means a lot coming from someone I see as level headed( balanced). From someone about to be married soon for the first time at the old age of 38 I seek stability and peace for myself for my future family. To do that, I have to be at peace with my own personal knowledge and gospel and church. Ultimately I seek not to prove or disprove things. But to find diving wonder in all that god has created provide knowledge and understanding, hope love, faith and peace to my future wife and children. I believe, the LDS faith can best accomplish that, I hope I am right. Thanks for the insight.
wayfarer wrote:We can accept that JS was inspired, yet understand that his revelations were influenced by prevailing folk wisdom.
…including where Native Americans came from.
Heber13 wrote:wayfarer wrote:We can accept that JS was inspired, yet understand that his revelations were influenced by prevailing folk wisdom.
…including where Native Americans came from.
Incidentally, I just finished
1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbusby Charles Mann, and I am currently reading 1493. I highly recommend these books. Heber13 wrote:wayfarer wrote:We can accept that JS was inspired, yet understand that his revelations were influenced by prevailing folk wisdom.
…including where Native Americans came from.
I agree Joseph and many other church leaders got this very wrong
here is a thought. Could Joseph of been convinced that all Native Americans descended from Israelites and The Book of Mormon be from a very small group of Israelites blending in with a gigantic already existing culture?
Doesn’t prove anything but there is possibilities in both views.
You know what is so strange….. on this board I am the TBM who is advocating Faith. Yet I have the exact same views on the MDD board and there I am an apostate who is destroying the church… sorry was just thinking about that and felt I should post it. By the way…. There is a distinct difference in how people are treated in the two boards and I just wanted all of you to know that while I am at a different end of the spectrum then many of you, you have been so kind and friendly, and welcoming. I just wanted to say thank you as your Christlike behavior very much shows through. While others see you as the fringe members it is apparent that in some areas you have the gospel mastered!
DBMormon wrote:here is a thought. Could Joseph of been convinced that all Native Americans descended from Israelites and The Book of Mormon be from a very small group of Israelites blending in with a gigantic already existing culture?
that apologetic thought is more plausible than how the title page in the BoM used to read.
Another thought is the people are not real, just stories to teach us good principles…therefore making archeological debates of BoM history worthless.
DB, fwiw, I am seen as liberal and conservative, orthodox and heterodox, just about any classification on both sides, depending on where I am commenting. It’s one of the reasons why a “middle way” (a personal faith) is more difficult than either norm or extreme. There are fewer possible “homes” (places where people understand you and accept you for who you really are) in real life and online. I am both an individual and a member of a community – and those two aspects of my existence don’t mesh perfectly naturally. I’ve worked out a way to make them mesh, and mesh very well, but I’ve been at it for at least 40 years now.
DBMormon wrote:There is a distinct difference in how people are treated in the two boards and I just wanted all of you to know that while I am at a different end of the spectrum then many of you, you have been so kind and friendly, and welcoming. I just wanted to say thank you as your Christlike behavior very much shows through. While others see you as the fringe members it is apparent that in some areas you have the gospel mastered!
This is really nice, Bill. I agree completely about this site. Thanks, everybody, for making me feel welcome and valued.
DBMormon wrote:You know what is so strange….. on this board I am the TBM who is advocating Faith. Yet I have the exact same views on the MDD board and there I am an apostate who is destroying the church… sorry was just thinking about that and felt I should post it.
By the way…. There is a distinct difference in how people are treated in the two boards and I just wanted all of you to know that while I am at a different end of the spectrum then many of you, you have been so kind and friendly, and welcoming. I just wanted to say thank you as your Christlike behavior very much shows through. While others see you as the fringe members it is apparent that in some areas you have the gospel mastered!
Coming from my point of view. What differnce does it make what a person believes in if it’s not from charity or with then it’s all for naught. I joined the church not to live my life by historical beliefs, but to serve others in there need as best I can. It’s really the values. If we can’t help other, what purpose does the gospel serve? If peace isn’t important, why do we refer to Christ as the prince of peace? Regardless of where you come from you have chosen to serve with peace and I appreciate that.
My latest podcast is up at mormondiscussion.podbean.com also started a thread at
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3545 where I need help with the podcast
what does MDD stand for ? DBMormon, you are a new face here for me. I read some of the earlier posts here and CWald told us more of your background at MDD.
i appreciate your comment:
Quote:You know what is so strange….. on this board I am the TBM who is advocating Faith. Yet I have the exact same views on the MDD board and there I am an apostate who is destroying the church… sorry was just thinking about that and felt I should post it.
By the way…. There is a distinct difference in how people are treated in the two boards and I just wanted all of you to know that while I am at a different end of the spectrum then many of you, you have been so kind and friendly, and welcoming. I just wanted to say thank you as your Christlike behavior very much shows through. While others see you as the fringe members it is apparent that in some areas you have the gospel mastered!
i think that is partly why i have chosen not to bother with LDS church participation – i just don’t like a judgemental social atmosphere. I loved my past spiritual connections with the LDS church but i sure hated the lack of warmth i’d sometimes get from members or leaders who, for whatever reason, chose to look down on me.
Mike
MDD = Mormon Dialogue and Discussion board or http://www.mormondialogue.org/ Quote:i think that is partly why i have chosen not to bother with LDS church participation – i just don’t like a judgemental social atmosphere. I loved my past spiritual connections with the LDS church but i sure hated the lack of warmth i’d sometimes get from members or leaders who, for whatever reason, chose to look down on me.
While the board is very frustrating and painful for me, my ward is the exact opposite. In other words the behavior of the MDD board doesn’t make me want to abandon the church as my Ward is the antithesis of the MDD board behavior. My ward is the best. They are mostly stage 3 but when I sporadically throw new ideas and paradigms at them they take them and wrap their arms around them.
In the past two years we have discussed seer stones, treasure digging (scrying), false doctrine taught by prophets and apostles, stages of faith, ect….
If members build trust with someone they know is concerned about them and looking out for them and won’t lead them astray intentionally, they will hear and reason out what your saying.
My spiritual testimony and My ward drives me to want to be at church each and every week. Church for me is fun, initiates growth, and last but not least is a place where I feel really close to God.
DBMormon wrote:By the way…. There is a distinct difference in how people are treated in the two boards and I just wanted all of you to know that while I am at a different end of the spectrum then many of you, you have been so kind and friendly, and welcoming. I just wanted to say thank you as your Christlike behavior very much shows through. While others see you as the fringe members it is apparent that in some areas you have the gospel mastered!
Thanks, and I was just coming here this morning to quote Elder Cook out of our new September Ensign (p. 36-37):
Quote:The Savior taught us to love even our enemies (see Matt 5:44). This is especially true when we disagree. . . .faith requires that we treat our neighbors with respect.
In a general conference address I pointed out that “there are some who feel that venting their personal anger or deeply held opinions is more important than conducting themselves as Jesus Christ lived and taught . . . How we disagree is a real measure of who we are and whether we truly follow the Savior. It is appropriate to disagree, but it is not appropriate to be disagreeable. …If we show love and respect even in adverse circumstances, we become more like Christ.”
In many ways StayLDS has been acting as my church over the last few years. It has been my biggest source of personal and spiritual growth, and my biggest comfort during challenging times. My heartfelt thanks to everyone.
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