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I’m reading a very good book called From Jesus to Christianity. It talks about the historical background of the people before and during and after the time of Jesus. It explains myths, legends, politics and all that stuff and how they influenced the Christian movement. I find it very cool to see how the myths evolved and developed and how religions changed and borrowed from eachother. And built upon one another.
One facinating section discusses the Greek mystery religion initiation. It involved a process where the initiates would travel (10 days) and do different things to prepare. Then there would be a ritual reinactment of the myth of Demeter and Persophone. Then the initiates would one by one enter a small centeral chamber and see a sacred object. This was called “seeing.” They didn’t become a member of anything-it was more of a community experience.
It seems that there evolved a belief that immortality was conferred during these initiations. It talks about the Egyptian mystery cults, too and how these cults were able to flourish in the Roman world.
I thought this was interesting: Initiation into the Isis cult brought followers into a kind of community of experience and belief. In some cases, initiation resulted in a special fellowship that included ritual meals and secret handshakes.
So far I am really enjoying this book. It is pretty long, though, about 460 pages. I can’t wait to read about historical Jesus and Paul.
Awesome. Let us know how the book continues. I’m also very interested in historical portraits of jesus and paul. I’m through the section on historical Jesus. It talks about him through the lense of the Gospels and the scarce tidbits found in other places. Most everything was really written after he died. However non-believer sources also say he was crucified, so that seemed to be something accepted by all. Jesus did not come to found a new religion, but one was founded in his memory.
The Gospels cannot be considered histories, they should be regarded as what is known as “lives.”
Jesus birth appears to have been prior to 4 BCE during the last years of Herod’s reign. This rules out the census part of the birth narative. The census didn’t start until 6 CE.
It discusses the differences in the Gospels about each section of his life (miracles, death, etc). It even shows some side by sides of the texts for comparison. The Gospels were each written to specific audiences and also to address particular challenges. Example: It was claimed that Jesus was illegitamate by critics this is overcome by the immaculate conception story.
The chapters leading to this talk about how many people were diefied after death-or even before in some cases. There were also other people claimed to have been born of a virgin, son of God, etc. It is really interesting to look at it in that historical context.
Just ordered the book. Sounds intriguing, although similar to Bart Ehrmann’s Jesus Misquoted, which I’ve read – also a great read. The book sounds interesting. It makes me think of Monty Python’s “the Life of Brian”, which is not such a reverent or serious piece of work, but the ongoing theme the Pythons wanted to establish throughout the movie is how eager people were to institutionalize the events taking place in a way to satisfy their need for community worship. However, I do not agree with books (or spoof movies) that suggest Jesus was just a prophet or teacher and others turned Him into a mythological messiah or created a church postmortem.
Jesus came to establish His church, and I believe that church was re-established through keys from angelic ministers to Joseph Smith.
I still believe those things to be literal. I’d be interested in checking out this book and reading it to see if I could reconcile my beliefs with the historical evidences presented by the author.
Is the book heavily against the idea Jesus was actually the Christ?
Heber, the book seems to me to be about as unbiased as a history book can be. But, who knows? It does clearly state that he did not come to set up a church. It also talks about the word church, congregation and synagogue. They carry different meaning today. Church was more like congregation, so was synagogue.
It talks about the evolution of the Jesus Movement and the dates and places involved. It is kind of neat to learn how it was originally a sect within the Jewish religion. That makes a lot of sense with the way Jesus taught. As we know some people in the movement wanted it to remain a Jewish only sect. I’ve just started the chapter on Paul, so I expect to learn more about the spread of the movement soon.
I’d say it is similar in flavor to Joseph Campbell. Explaining the evolution of the myths or religious history. Not slamming it but not promoting any supernatural claims either. If you don’t like that type of thing it may not be for you. However, most of the book is spent on the history and people leading up to and surrounding him and following him.
Thanks, Just Me. It sounds historical and lots of facts and timelines based on research, I like that kind of thing, even if I don’t agree with an assertion, I find the information helps me learn about the people and the time so I can better put my own studies into context. I like Campbell a lot, so if it is that flavor, it sounds interesting. Keep us updated as you go through the chapters.
just me wrote:
Jesus birth appears to have been prior to 4 BCE during the last years of Herod’s reign. This rules out the census part of the birth narative. The census didn’t start until 6 CE.
I have a complaint. IMO, it is a gross simplification to say “The census didn’t start until 6 CE”.http://doig.net/NTC05.htmhttp://doig.net/NTC05.htm” class=”bbcode_url”> Essentially, the historical evidence points to a prior census (prior to 6 CE) that was generally a failure, because Caesar didn’t send out troops to enforce the tax. We have no direct, primary source for the declaration of this earlier tax, though, and that’s why a lot of historians don’t mention it.
Yet, we do have multiple primary sources that refer to the need for the 6 CE “second try”. Implying that there was an earlier, “first try”. The 6 CE tax DID include soldiers as collectors, and as you can imagine, the tax produced far more revenues (ie, was a ‘success’).
Such revealing nuances are lost by generalizations.
HiJolly
Hi Jolly – thanks for that. Keep ’em coming. I’m still reading. I do think the bit about how dramatically the Babylonian conquest (that pre-figures into the BOM) changed Judaism is interesting. It actually lends credence to the BOM as a historical text and explains some of the seeming anachronisms in an intriguing way. Not conclusive, but interesting to consider. I’m not sure how well that was understood in JS’s time.
HiJolly, the book went into greater detail than I did. He does talk about some saying there may have been a previous census and then he shows why he feels it lacks historical merit. I was offering a summary of conclusions based on my reading. Sorry for the gross simplification. 
Quirinius was the governor in 6/7 CE. Any census before 6 CE would not have been done under him.
I couldn’t find any historical evidence other than the comment in
Roman Historyby Dio. The link did not provide me with “multiple” primary sources refering to a “second try” at the census. I only noted the secondary source of Dio. Dio provides no source for his statement and it was written over a hundred years after the fact. If you can point me to these other sources I can take a look at them. It is also extremely unlikely that a Roman census would have required anyone to travel to their ancestral home. The information provided for the census in 6 CE lacks anything about travel by the taxed.
It is interesting to me that in Acts the “days of the census” are referred to in conjunction with a zealot named Judas who was killed. That happened in 6 CE and the author of Acts is the same as the author of Luke. I would have drawn the conclusion that the same census was being referred to.
Here is more info and further reading from wiki about the census of Quirinius.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius It’s all very fascinating.
Finished the book. It goes into great detail about what is and is not known about Paul and his travels and writings. I thought it was very good. I liked that the author would present several different ideas and tell which is the current popular belief among scholars and other less popular beliefs.
It was really interesting to learn about the development of Christianity and their books and forms of worship.
This is a great book and highly recommended. You can get it pretty cheap on half.com-at least I did.
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