From the More Believing Spouse

[Anonymous]

Thank you. This may turn out to be a novel. I will try not to, but….

I am the more believing spouse or more attached to LDSness spouse. I came here half a dozen years ago, trying to sort out the results of a spouses faith crisis. It was quieter here, calmer, the issues were still being discussed, but there was no pressure for me to take a stand or decide. I could ruminate until I was ready. In the decade that has followed since his shelf fell we have ridden the roller coaster that many families do. I can’t say I loved it. I can’t even say I did my part well – the large reason for that is that we have no direction on what is or what isn’t the best way to handle these things. I can’t say he did his part well. What I can say is we are still muddling through. Which brings me to my Thank You.

Most of you are the less orthodox spouse, or the one with the questions and road shifts. Every day you remind me of what it may feel like to walk in my husbands moccasins. You don’t share his issues (okay maybe quite a few of them), but you share his spot in our home. You remind me that you each feel silence, loneliness, loss. I try to use those reminders to help me work on my side here at home. Its hard, what means so much to me, doesn’t always mean so much to him. I miss the old days of being on the exact team. You or your spouse may, too. I appreciate your thoughts and vents. I yearn for all of us to have smoother home lives and extended family lives. I have never loved this process. I really do feel more like Job than anything. But I am grateful to have been forced into another view point. I hope some day each of us can take the amazing lessons this journey has handed us and lead others to light, hope, connected-ness, and joy in ways no one has been able to do for us.

I wish you continued success, help, and healing in your relationships, too. And again Thank You for lighting my understanding.

[Anonymous]

I know there’s such a thing as Faces East, but I’m so glad you’re here. I need the reminder that this is stressful for my husband, too.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mom3 — for me, the thanks is for the community we have here. Where people who don’t judge me for unorthodox views, less activity, angst etcetera toward the decision I made 30 years ago to join this religion. I’m glad you are able to learn about the unorthodox spouse in some ways. I’m glad that helps.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this, friend.

We are happy you are here, as well, and I thank you for helping us.

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

I am the more believing spouse or more attached to LDSness spouse.

would you be willing to share how you view your spouse, or is that too personal?

Is he wrong?

Is he lost and you hope one day he’ll see truth?

Does he lack faith?

Are you or your family missing out on blessings?

You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. Just thought it would be good to hear your perspective.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for sharing and the insight that is behind it.

I don’t know that I would say that my wife and I have ever been really close where we really share how we feel deep down. The few times I have tried it has not gone well (I am not even talking about faith crisis issues). To me it feels like she is more concerned about sticking to the, “I am happy since I am doing what I am supposed to do” even if she is in depression for years (but won’t go get help).

I have turned my energies from trying to fix my marriage to trying to deal with my faith crisis and now faith transition. I know she can tell something has fundamentally changed, but when I give openings to start talking she does not take the offer.

You have made me think a bit more about how she must feel (and I have not shared much of anything with her).

Thanks again mom. This was great for you to share.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing, thanks for continuing to be positive when it is so easy to be negative (or perceived negative)!!!!

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Is he wrong?

Is he lost and you hope one day he’ll see truth?

Does he lack faith?

Are you or your family missing out on blessings?

Heber – great questions, I don’t even know if I have answers to all of them. I will try to answer what I sense – yet I could change my mind.

Is he wrong? Wrong about what a person believes – I don’t know, can a belief be wrong? I remember initially thinking he was wrong, and we went round and round trying to prove our points of view. It took years for me to understand that all of our beliefs belong to us based on our choices. We see, feel, and experience life from so many aspects. We aren’t a single entity, we are affected from day one of arrival on earth/birth. Simple things such as birth order or physical touch in infancy shapes us. As life goes on that affecting continues. Right and wrong get shaped – and so do our beliefs. In short we both maybe wrong. It’s hard to tell, but a decade ago, I would have said yes.

Is he lost? I don’t see it that way. I see our teamness as being lost and it’s hard when you aren’t smoothly walking along without thinking. Each step now creates a question, a thought, a pro-con list. The weird part is initially he was more Mormon than I was. I was never rebellious, and I was a true believer in a lot, but I had been raised in the diaspora of Northern Cal. I had grown to love the Catholic heritage that surrounded me. He was beltway raised, and brought a lot of that to our lives. He purchased the family proclamation that hung in our home, he nudged me to attend Women’s Conference, he took our kids to the new conference center when it was built. He liked being the witness couple during temple sessions. (We laugh about it now, because he used to make extra effort to hold my hand, sit closer to me in the chapel just so we could get picked. And all I wanted to do was blend in – center row, anonymous.) So lost I won’t commit to, but different yes, and still trying to settle on the steps going forward.

Does he lack faith? That would be his to answer. Faith for me has changed, and I imagine for him it has, too. What is faith? What is it in? How does it really work? It maybe a little too nebulous to answer.

Are we missing out on blessings? Early on I thought so. As I move through it – I see new opportunities for blessings – the biggest one I see is the opportunity to stretch over the divide that was handed to us, and keep the good we have going. We have a lot of potential for continued connection, it doesn’t flow in the ways we planned. In church we make these simple statements about how a happy family will result if we just do this or that – and yeah I grew up that way, so I see it, but there is another story and the challenge of writing or creating that story and having personal confidence in it, while the powers that be tell you otherwise is hard. So it doesn’t feel like a blessing, it feels like a burden, a crisis, a failing and a judgement. And as the person who hoped for an Ensign Cover finale, it’s a scary place to be.

I have gotten over my Ensign Cover expectation. I have spent hours pondering the many faceted homes, marriages, lives and stories that make up LDS and non-LDS lives and am putting my blind courage out to walk a different path than I expected. Hoping for all of us that we will find and keep the best that connects us and not let this divide win.

Believe it or not, believing spouses are scared. We are scared to death. We have pinned all our hopes on something and the what-if or if-not can be terrifying. That is the wall that both sides have between them, scaling that wall is herculean. I believe though that it is also a gift. A gift no one really thought of before it happened. It’s kind of like the Point Du Hoc cliffs, there will be some casualties in the climb, sadly some loss, too. Eventually though tenacity will prevail, the wall will be conquered, and other groups behind us will have safe access and life will march forward.

So give your believing spouse a hug, or a couple hundred. Carry gallons of courtesy and respect if you can. And drop by here to vent. You aren’t alone – it’s just that no one has the tools we needed, so we get to forge our own.

[Anonymous]

mom3, few posts have touched me as deeply as yours did. Thank you for sharing.

mom3 wrote:

As life goes on that affecting continues. Right and wrong get shaped – and so do our beliefs. In short we both maybe wrong. It’s hard to tell, but a decade ago, I would have said yes.

This is so powerful. You have grown from where you were a decade ago. When I hear marriage troubles and one person says “he/she has changed”…I think…of course. Who doesn’t change over 20 years of marriage?? You have seemed to be honest about believing what you believe…and yet become mature enough to see you could both be wrong. You sound like you’ve become a lake, and no longer a glass, even though the salt is still there.

mom3 wrote:

What is faith? What is it in? How does it really work? It maybe a little too nebulous to answer.

Agreed. And that, I think is the scary part you also talk about…that to think faith can change is a scare that it is dwindling which leads to the cursings of a jealous god, or so it is sometimes taught.

When actually you are….

mom3 wrote:

putting my blind courage out to walk a different path than I expected. Hoping for all of us that we will find and keep the best that connects us and not let this divide win.

…you are actually learning what FAITH actually is, in a much much deeper form of faith and trust and courage.

mom3 wrote:

Eventually though tenacity will prevail, the wall will be conquered, and other groups behind us will have safe access and life will march forward.

Love this! Most likely, your children who come after you (or other family or friends if you have no children) will be the blessings you hoped for…kind of the Lehi and the Tree vision story, but with a twist. And don’t forget…along the way while tenacity prevails, love is also the winner. It should not just be a wall to be endured or conquered…but doing so will increase love for self, spouse, and everyone else…which is the gospel message. Love makes it an enjoyable challenge (in some ways).

mom3 wrote:

So give your believing spouse a hug, or a couple hundred. Carry gallons of courtesy and respect if you can. And drop by here to vent. You aren’t alone – it’s just that no one has the tools we needed, so we get to forge our own.

Great wise words of advice…I’m speechless, except to say..

Amen, and amen.

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

He liked being the witness couple during temple sessions. (We laugh about it now, because he used to make extra effort to hold my hand, sit closer to me in the chapel just so we could get picked. And all I wanted to do was blend in – center row, anonymous.)

While dating my future wife I was praying to know if this was someone I should spend eternity with. We went to the temple together and were selected as the witness couple. I took that (coupled with the good feeling I felt kneeling by her side at the altar) as an answer to prayer. Life has not been without its challenges, but I have never regreted this decision.

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

Believe it or not, believing spouses are scared. We are scared to death. We have pinned all our hopes on something and the what-if or if-not can be terrifying. That is the wall that both sides have between them, scaling that wall is herculean. I believe though that it is also a gift. A gift no one really thought of before it happened. It’s kind of like the Point Du Hoc cliffs, there will be some casualties in the climb, sadly some loss, too. Eventually though tenacity will prevail, the wall will be conquered, and other groups behind us will have safe access and life will march forward.

Knowing this was what made approaching DW about my feelings so very difficult. I basically asked myself, if I were her how would I feel? I felt that fear, it wasn’t pretty. It made having the talk all the more difficult, it was just a part of me I no longer wanted to withhold from her. When we had the talk I mentioned that I didn’t mean to cause the fears that I had felt when considering her perspective. It was tough to get things out in the open.

Thanks. I loved this thread. Very insightful.

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

Believe it or not, believing spouses are scared.

I have come to the conclusion that this is the case with my wife. I would not call her curious nor courageous. In many, many parts of life she has fear.

I think a confident person would be willing to listen at least to a few things and be ready to defend their point of view.

And I don’t think it is just my spouse. I see the church membership in general being very afraid. They have certainly been taught that reading a few words of anti-Mormon stuff and the devil will have his hooks in you. Then they see people around that from their perspective validate this view.

[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

They have certainly been taught that reading a few words of anti-Mormon stuff and the devil will have his hooks in you.

So…what exactly is the thinking behind this? Because it is a common response by people, from what I hear.

Don’t dabble…you’ll get lost.

The currents are so strong you can’t get yourself out before it is too late.

Don’t confuse me with philosophies of men/women…I need to stay focused on the faithful view and that’s all.

In all seriousness…if this life is a time to prepare to meet God, and we talk and teach about “truth”…how does a believing spouse live in fear of not searching things out and not understanding the other spouse?

I can accept viewing things and taking apologetic stances and just saying those other things are not important or not the way you see it…after you’ve researched it…and choosing to keep a faithful perspective, and learning to have a marriage where you equally respect each other but disagree.

I am not sure I can understand the approach of living in fear and not searching and seeing the marriage have tension, because of fear to search to understand.

Maybe someone can explain that approach to me. It isn’t an issue for me…and it wasn’t the cause for my divorce…but I’m just curious why that approach seems so prevalent.

[Anonymous]

I’m guessing it’s because of the conclusions we draw that are based on a limited view. E.g. My good friend starting reading anti material and now I see them kicking against the pricks. They were just like me before all this but the anti material changed them. I must avoid the anti material like the plague because it has the potential to corrupt me as well. Our limited view skews both the before and after picture. We first assume they were just like us and we then make assumptions about what they are like afterwards.

People fall prey to the slippery slope argument, even when it plays out entirely inside our own minds.

Maybe this one comes from the same place as how people learned not to eat the red berries… and it just so happened that the first person in the tribe to be brave enough to taste a raspberry had an allergic reaction scaring everyone else off raspberries for a long time.

It certainly fits into a black and white paradigm. The “anti-mormon” stuff is attempting to shine a light on what someone holds to be white (more often than not in a less than charitable manner), so it must be black.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

I’m guessing it’s because of the conclusions we draw that are based on a limited view.

But if we have a limited view…how do we know the church view is “right”, considering our limited view?

Usually it is because people have spiritual witnesses, and then even with a limited view, they believe it. Which is received by studying it out in our own mind, then asking if it be right.

…except they are not wanting to study it out.

I need to go read Elder Oak’s 2 lines of communication talk again. I just remember it being a bit circular to me…if the priesthood has said it, it will be confirmed by personal revelation. If you don’t get the personal revelation, keep trying until you do…because that is what is right.

[Author]

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